"The slumbering hatreds of the English: The Civil War..." Topic

… was fought not for religious liberty, but between rival groups of persecutors. It still resonates today, and we resist its message at our peril, says the historian and politician Conrad Russell.

"Three hundred and fifty years ago this week, King Charles I raised his standard at Nottingham, and the English Civil War was legally begun. When the French or the Americans celebrate their revolutions, they are invoking myths that still have great force in their political lives. By contrast, the English Civil War has no generally recognised symbolism, and very few resonances for most English people. Is this because our national culture has collapsed, or because it is only now that the Civil War is receiving serious historical study?
It is certainly true that we no longer have a single culture. When W C Sellar and R J Yeatman published 1066 and All That before the Second World War, they were able to begin with the confident words: 'All the history you can remember is in this little book.' No one could write such a book now: we do not have any body of historical knowledge common enough to be satirised. For good or ill, that change is irreversible.

Twenty years ago there did still exist two widely received myths about the Civil War. One, the high Victorian, is neatly captured in the pictures displayed at Parliament in the corridor between the Peers' Lobby and the Central Lobby. It sees the Civil War as a vital stage in the growth of civil and religious liberty…"
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Amicalement
Armand

Quite an interesting opinion thanks for posting it.

Or English culture has changed so much since the 17th century that the issues that lead to the English Civil War are no longer relevant. Quite possibly the author has simply elected not to embrace modern culture, which I have seen in academics before.

The Irish still remember 17th century history, however.

Incidentally, what's the difference between a civil war and a revolution ? Is a revolution a civil war that the government loses ?

I always thought that removing a King's head was a step in the right direction and clearly about 100 years later the French agreed, which was a revolution.

Perhaps I didn't completely waste my time reading that article. I wonder how long it takes before a Civil war is forgotten in cultural terms ? Can't think that the wars of the roses are remembered but I've never lived in Yorkshire or Lancashire

John

25 years since the 350th anniversary of the outbreak of the ECW, the article is from 1992!

The ECW seems to me to have been hijacked to represent many other arguments, none of which do a great job of explaining the actual war.

Catholic v Protestant
Tory v Whig
Long hair v basin cut
Boozer v teetotal
Country v town
Posh v common
capitalist v communist (probably the most silly)
Anglicn v independent
Louche v OCD
Monarchy v democracy
Rule of law v dictatorship

None of which really

The Irish still remember 17th century history, however.

We Irish invented convenient amnesia. Thus, we remember each and every little thing the English did to us (and even things they didn't actually do to us), but can't for the life of us ever recall invading England several times – long before any Englishman ever set foot in Ireland – nor that lordship over Ireland was granted to the Kings of England by the Pope as punishment for, inter alia, becoming the biggest slavers in western Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire.

A votre service mon ami!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

An interesting article. The most relevant part for me was the comment about the decline, and perhaps death, of a single culture. If a government cannot impose that then we are all doomed.

Glad you enjoyed it too my friend!.

Amicalement
Armand

There are echos of the Civil Wars and even the Wars of the Roses in all sorts of strange corners in Modern Britain. Where I come from In Lancashire the town was one of Richard III's manors but the big house in Town is (or was)Stanley House. He got it as a reward for supporting Henry Tudor.

In local football the big rivalry is Blackburn v Burnley. Blackburn play in Blue and white Halves (Lancastrian Royal colours) Burnley in Claret and Blue (AKA Murrey and Azure – Yorkist Royal colours) although I suspect that is totally coincidental.

There are still traditional rivalries between counties which reflect divisions in support for different factions in the Civil War. The North South divide often spoken about in British politics broadly reflects the political divide of the WOTR. The English still claim not to trust the Welsh and vice versa that's a rivalry that goes back to the Dark Ages. There are dozens of these little hints built into our culture but mostly noone knows why they exist it's just "a thing".

Some of us with an interest in history recognise the long lost original sources of these opinions from history, its just that it isn't as important as more modern divisions that are being played up by the media at present. Which is a shame because a people who do not learn from their past and all that.

I once worked in a preparatory school where the deputy head was a High Anglican and a member of the Charles the Martyr society. One of my colleagues commented it was the first school he'd experienced where one's chances of advancement depended upon which side one's family would have supported in the English Civil War!