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"8th Edition Vehicles, Tougher?" Topic


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598 hits since 20 Aug 2017
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Comments or corrections?

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP21 Aug 2017 8:40 a.m. PST

Played a game this weekend with a few vehicles and they seem considerably tougher to kill than earlier editions. Anyone agree, or am I wrong?

Centurio Prime21 Aug 2017 8:52 a.m. PST

They are less susceptible to one shot kills and are tougher in general. However a few good lascannon shots can take a vehicle down quickly.

Puddinhead Johnson21 Aug 2017 9:41 a.m. PST

They're not just "less susceptible to one shot kills". There is in fact no weapon powerful enough to one-shot kill most vehicles. (I don't know about Forgeworld stuff, or Titans- but no weapon that you'll normally see on the table).

In addition, passengers in a destroyed vehicle are slain only on a roll of 1 (You roll for each passenger in the vehicle). So, for most troops, APC's are now the safest place to be instead of the death trap they used to be.

Centurio Prime21 Aug 2017 10:19 a.m. PST

As one example, Skitarii Dunewalkers can kill most vehicles with their neutron laser if they roll high on their number of shots and damage. 3 hits and 3 wounds = 9 damage minimum.

With a command point to reroll the number of shots, and Cawl nearby, it can reliably put out a lot of damage.

Also, shadowswords…. master of the one shot OVERkill…. are in the Index for Astra Militarum.

Puddinhead Johnson21 Aug 2017 12:12 p.m. PST

As one example, Skitarii Dunewalkers can kill most vehicles with their neutron laser if they roll high on their number of shots and damage. 3 hits and 3 wounds = 9 damage minimum.

I'm trying to think of vehicles that have only 9 wounds?

I think even those rickety Dark Eldar Raiders have 10 wounds.

Also, shadowswords…. master of the one shot OVERkill…. are in the Index for Astra Militarum.

Yes, they're in the AM Index, but I still don't think people take them in "normal" games.

Generalstoner49 Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2017 5:34 p.m. PST

Way tougher. The rules changes essentially made all vehicles monstrous creatures. Allow me illustrate with a sample.

In the 7th edition a space marine dreadnought used the armor and toughness values while an Eldar Wraithlord had a toughness value and wounds. It also had the monstrous creatures rule giving it 2D6 penetration rolls.

A space marine dreadnought was strength 10 and would wound a wraithlord on 2+ but would only hit with approximately 50% of its attacks for 2 wounds. This would leave the wraithlord with 2 wounds.

The eldar Wraithlord would strike back actually hitting on 3+ and it rolled 8+2d6 and only had to roll a 13 to penetrate the dreadnought' armor. The Wraithlord would usually have 5-6 attacks and hit with 4 and on average score 3 penetrating hits only one of which needed to be a roll of 6. In the process the other hits immobilized or destroyed The dreadnought' weapons rendering it useless and destroyed the next turn if it was not removed in a single turn of combat.

Dreadnought are now very powerful compared to what they did. Lift vehicles like the raider, venom, land speeder got huge boosts to survivability.

Tanks on average stayed about the same. As someone who plays AdMech it is unlikely your single dunecrawler will single shot any battle tank in a single turn. Vehicles got the biggest boost of all in this edition.

Centurio Prime21 Aug 2017 5:59 p.m. PST

I did not say vehicles were not tougher or that they can be easily killed in one shot.

I was responding to this:

"There is in fact no weapon powerful enough to one-shot kill most vehicles. "

"NO WEAPON"… LOL

Chimeras have 10 wounds, Rhinos have 10, Leman Russ tanks have 12. I said 9 was the MINIMUM damage. The Neutron Laser can do as much as 18 damage if it gets 3 shots. When people are using the synergies of that faction, and command points, its not outrageous or highly unusual for that weapon to one shot a vehicle, I've seen it happen several times and the dunecrawler is often used with Cawl and in groups of 3.

People use all sorts of superheavies, etc in normal games as well. Most of the tournament winning lists don't use superheavies, but people use them in games for fun as well as in tournaments.

fantasque22 Aug 2017 12:29 a.m. PST

If you are going to quote Centurio, then do it properly and include the whole relevant section.

Your snipped quote
"NO WEAPON"… LOL

creates a very different impression from what the OP actually wrote

"There is in fact no weapon powerful enough to one-shot kill most vehicles. (I don't know about Forgeworld stuff, or Titans- but no weapon that you'll normally see on the table)."

It's clear that the OP was talking about run of the mill games, not unusual codex outliers.

Centurio Prime22 Aug 2017 4:30 a.m. PST

Its not an unusual outlier, the weapon I was talking about is on the Onager Dunecrawler, which is a VERY common unit. Various superheavy tanks are not uncommon either. Manticores and knights have weapons that can kill a vehicle in one shot. You also have some twin lascannons on certain vehicles that can kill tanks on a high roll.

Outliers would be Forge World stuff (though some is fairly common), the fortifications in the index (which have serveral powerful weapons), and maybe some other rarely used stuff.

I don't understand what the controversy is. I just didn't want the OP to think that there is NO weapon that can one shot a vehicle, because that's false. Just because you folks don't use a Shadowsword or other things that can do multiple d6 of damage in one shot (Onager Dunecrawler, twin lascannon razorback, etc) doesn't mean many many other people don't. Those things are not that uncommon, they are in the basic books you need to play the game.

kallman27 Aug 2017 12:53 p.m. PST

As others have stated and my experience so far is yes vehicles have a better chance of surviving but if you get in the sights of enough big guns or say a unit of Firedragons you can see your landraider go up quick.

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