"Poses for pikemen ??" Topic

As a manufacturer of little miniatures that are designed to be mounted on a base and used in a game I have always tried to create the figure with that in mind? With this thought what say you, the gamer?
1. I have never made figures with leveled pikes -- Seems counter productive for the reasons mentioned above?
2. cast pikes --they are doomed to be twisted, bent, and broken?
Thoughts?

This will help me if I continue with my next range? Thank you.

Regards
Russ Dunaway

Level pikes are for dioramas.
I had Macedonian and Successor armies. Having 4 ranks of pikes with varying levels looked awesome, but very frustrating when trying to have units fight. Even worse was having a pike army fight a pike army.

If I were to get back into Ancients, I would prefer upright, and MAYBE at 60 degrees.

No cast on pikes. I like hands that can be drilled out for wire pikes.

I second both of WS's comments.
I don't mind cast on pikes but if an open hand option is available I would select it. Upright pikes are the simplest to game with and store imho.

I have always had pike figures sculpted at 45 -60 degree angle be it "historically correct" or not just for the purposes of gaming. The straight up pike causes problems putting our beloved little armies in boxes it seems?

Regards
Russ Dunaway

Big pet hate for me is cast on pikes much prefer open handed and at 45 to 60 degrees good luck with any future releases (great Italian wars)hint hint

Open handed and pikes upright or 45-60 degrees.

The level pikes look great, but are a nightmare to play with.

Another vote for open hand at 45 degrees.

Upright pikes for me. Wire for pikes also.

Open hand, pike upright and made of wire.

Open hand, wire like, 45 degrees.
I have OG hoplites with up right in the back rank, 45 middle rank and levelled front rank, they look great but are a pain to move around.

I prefer to use wire pikes.
I like a mixture of pikes – the rear ranks with vertical pikes and the front ranks with pikes slightly angled forwards – but only slightly, otherwise they get in the way.

Never cast-on pikes.

I like pikemen in standing or advancing a 60-degree poses (petty much like OG's ECW line), though I'd prefer less of the
'pike/musket/rifle helf directly in front of my face' pose. If you're not actually casting the weapon, does the pose have to be as 'flat" as that?

I have some 45-degree, but could live without them. I have no desire at all for leveled pikes.

Cast-on pikes in a pound bag would be absolutely awful- lances are bad enough!

PLEASE expand your Wars of Religion range!

Level pikes would work though with some of the rule sets that use big bases (Impetus as one example), where they pikes could still be back from the edge.

I have come to love the Fireforge plastic pikes/lances, and have never liked the metal wires manufacturers always include with open-hand figures.

Re the original question--NO LEVEL PIKES (unless as an off code for those who really want them, but few will). I also have come to like the slightly-advancing pose many of your OG25 figures have with the pikes at a slight (but not 45 degree) tilt.

At least 60 degrees if not upright. Two units of pikemen meeting if both have pikes at 45 degrees doesn't work. The bases will not get into contact.

Angled forward aggressively but not so as to render push of pike impossible to represent on the table.

For me wire pikes look like, well, wire. Not very aesthetically pleasing, I prefer cast pikes that are slightly thicker but look like the weapon they are supposed to depict.

Please dont cast on. I didn't particularly like your pikes where you glued on the tip. Have ECW and Flemish/Burgundian from you. Could you make one piece pikes with tip to put in open hand sculpts?
I personally iked the upright pikes. On the leveled pike I see the bases extended forward in many people's armies to take care of that particular issue.

All cast pikes will end up broken and bent no matter how careful-- or so it seems to me?? I never really liked our cast spear tips myself -- many love them.
I always just painted the end of the wire silver -- in scale I doubt if you would barely see a spear tip -- most cast spear heads are almost as large as the figures actual head?

Regards
Russ Dunaway

Yup. Thats what I ended up doing. I do like the seperate pikes with leaf tip though.

Russ: Please don't give us upright pikes. Far too unaggressive for that troop type. Advancing with pike at 60 degrees is perfect. If the figure is sculpted with open hands I prefer separate pike. However, I don't want to have to drill out hundreds of hands. Having said that, I have a lot of your Confederate standard bearers with cast flag staff and haven't had any problems notwithstanding international post from you to Canada and then Canada to the UK and back. The alloy you use is very flexible and easily straightened without breaking.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that your question heralds the beginning of an early Italian Wars range. Although I have a very large collection a few hundred more Swiss and landsknecht pike wouldn't hurt and I've been holding out for a Neapolitan Spanish army.

Kent

For me wire pikes look like, well, wire. Not very aesthetically pleasing, I prefer cast pikes that are slightly thicker but look like the weapon they are supposed to depict.

Cannot steel or brass rod be as thin or as thick as you want? I use the tapering point an old dissecting probe to stretch out the hole in a minis' fist to accommodate thicker pikes, spears, or what have you. I know the OG ones will stretch quite a bit.

While I'm not one to ever really make a fuss over the matter, cast-on pikes tend to look like telephone poles, simply because casting them any thinner makes them too flimsy.

I agree about the seperate spear tips. I flatten the tip of brass rod with a hammer, and shape the rounded leaf-shaped end with a file. Once I get the rhythm down, I can turn them out pretty quickly.

I am extremely happy with your Landsknechts. Keep it that way.

Pikes at 45*-60* and upright, hands to be drilled would be my prefernece

Much depends on the rule system in use. I have a few units of pike, swiss and landsneckt with the pikes horizontal. The units are based as per the depth of 4 bases of 4, but on a single base with all the figures at the rear so that the length of the pike does not overhang the front of the base. I would show photos but photobucket is mad!!

I believe that a few other chaps have gone down this route,

Tally Ho!

I prefer raised pikes but have a number of units with lowered pikes that look really good; in an ideal world is great to have both. I invariably use steel pins.

The other pike pose to avoid is "receiving cavalry" – whoever at Minifigs (pre-Caliver it should be said) designed those in their 15mm range should be shot. After having been made to sit on them for a couple of days.

"Charge pike" looks good – and works with Baroque rules where the bases are deeper and design to be more diorama-ish – but otherwise is not very practical unless you can very careful at basing and do both armies. Even then, you've got problems with cavalry and non-pike foot (and don't get me started on pike charging guns……).

I have hundreds of Old Glory Macedonian and ECW pikes at the 45 -60 degree angle with wire pikes and they look great, are durable and work well on the gaming table for both skirmish and big battle games.

BigRedBat has spectacular, epic sized games using vertical pike units and they look great and work well too.

Horizontal pikes look great but are not practical on the gaming table. Cast on pikes are difficult to cast in "scale" and are vulnerable.

Upright and not cast on.

Russ, you just cannot win with this one. I conducted a similar consultation a few years ago prior to bringing out some Macedonians. Half the respondents definitely would not buy openk handed pikemen, half would not buy cast pike. There was a similar response to vertical pose versus something more aggressive.

In the end I did both types of pose with both options trusting to sales figures to inform future decisions. Sales figures are split roughly evenly between all options.

As I say, you won't find a single best fit solution as all wargamers KNOW what is the best option even if it is different to everyone else's preferences. It's a question of how few/many variants you want to carry.

Wire for me and I use a mixture of upright and 45 degrees but much prefer upright.

For 6mm I can see both srguments (the Baccus pikes are very good so I was fine with cast on and they would be fiddly at that size).

For 28s I am firmly in the wire pike (and spear for that matter) camp. As as poses go I find with pike you need to multi base so I am happy with most poses but the 45 degree angle is the easiest to work with.

I did not mention scale of the range.

Regards
Russ Dunaway

Upright and advancing poses are best.
Open handed figures would be my preference. With wire pikes.

I end up replacing the cast-on (or plastic) pikes with brass wire anyway since it doesn't take too long for the cast-on pikes to get bent. And even if you are able to straighten them out its never quite right. It ends up looking like the pike blocks are waving spaghetti at each other.

Many years ago I had a mini fig Macedonian pike unit with cast on pikes and after about 6 months everyone referred to it as "the Macedonian whip unit!" Lol !!
Regards
Russ Dunaway

I do have some 1500 metal Landsknechts in 28mm from a wide variety of manufacturers. I have none with cast on pikes, and I have none with 45-60° (which, alas rules out most Old Glory minis).
I want my table to look like a bit like the historical depictions, and there are plenty of contemporary Renaissance drawings of battles, clashes, units or individuals. None show pikes at 45-60° (unless in the process of just being lowered), and wielding a pike you will easily realize why that is a bad pose.

I do prefer:
Open hands to put in my own pikes (usually cutdown and modified broombrushes).
Standing in waiting position, pike on ground.
Advancing within and as a unit, pikes straight up
Levelled pike, with different grips, and SOME minis with different degrees to allow for the dynamic of a unit just levelling their pikes (TAG makes some fine examples here).

I do build my units with level pikes with an extended frontbase – when moving in contact, you are next to the pikeheads, not the soldiers.

I also like the "fast advance" pose that the Perrys made for Foundry years ago – though fielded in a large unit they look impractical, like an accident to happen (to the soldiers in the historical unit, not the models).
In reality they often used the method of trailing the pikes to avoid that, but I fear that would look pretty weired in miniatures. I would buy me a unit of these, though.

So in short, just imho:
open hands
pikes straight or level
will not buy 45/60°, though I understand those who want them this way.

Another vote for pikes straight up and open hands.

Upright and no cast pikes. Prefer open hands, but that never stopped me from drilling them out. Haven't drilled a hole in one of my fingers in awhile. I always replace spears and pikes on all my figures whether they are 28's or 15's. For 28's I do bother to flatten the tips, but for 15's I just paint the tip silver and in mass no one notices.

I do have some 1500 metal Landsknechts in 28mm from a wide variety of manufacturers.

Enough for a skirmish.

I agree with open hands and upright.

Another vote here for open hand and upright.

For 28's I do bother to flatten the tips

Most contemporary depictions of pikeheads show that they are either just sharp metal tips or at best small blades that hardly prodrude over the shaft, so just making a sharp tip painted metal will imho work.

Here are some Swiss pikeheads:

I only buy figures with upright pikes and spears. Although open hands is easier, drilled hands tend to look better and last longer.