"General Lee Statue removed?" Topic

ITALWARS wrote – "… we have also to consider that marxism/left thinking is not a clear political ideology.."

I agree. It is a richly diverse political environment within which certain assumptions and goals are shared and others are disputed, with any lingering ideological disagreements resolved by the erasure of the losing revolutionary factions by the revolutionary victors.

B

No need to clarify anything Albino Squirrel. I thought you were on the mark regarding our new 21st century version of the Thought Police.

By the way, check out the town mascot of Brevard NC. I think you might find it amusing.

B

may i contribute with something certainly unknown to our English speaking friends….you certainly have read many things about our supposed to be hero Giuseppe Garibaldi..he live in USA ecc…
following the raesoning behind this very topic..removal of ACW Confederate Statues because they are symbols of opression of slaves, perhaps there should be a similar campaign against Garibaldi statues since he was a slave-trader…i'm sure somebody could read Italian or understand it trough google translator:

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this second contribution has an accademic value and it's from Prof Angela Pelicciari ,..she is a well known a reliable Professor that i know personally
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And now we have the uber right invoking Alinsky (whose tactics, BTW, have been used by both the left and the right), some dark 'marxist/socialist' cabal plotting the overthrow of whatever, the bogeyman of Antifa (who'll burn themselves out like all such groups), and Lord knows what else the right drag up… (BTW, those tin foil hats all of you wearing are waaaay too tight. It cutting the blood flow to your brains…).

This idiotic thread has seen its day. And then some…

And to think, it all started over some pigeon crap covered statues….

the moovie "Fahrenheit 451" by F. Truffault is a good paradigma of the current situation..just substitute books with statues

Italwars- You do realize the book was written as a response to the McCarthy era witch hunts, don't you? Lead by that scion of liberalism, Joseph McCarthy? Yeah, you don't…

No need to clarify anything Albino Squirrel. I thought you were on the mark regarding our new 21st century version of the Thought Police.

As opposed to the 19th century version led by the "Lost Cause". Yeah, right…. (Oh, and they enforced it by means of random beatings, cross burnings, lynchings, etc. Pleasant folk, that…)

Well, ladies and gentlemen. I think that unfortunately sums it up. Any outrage is justifiable to some, so long as they agree with the claimed motives advertised by the miscreants. And if you disagree on any basis, you are immediately branded as a "racist", "homophobe", "white oppressor of the downtrodden" or "yellow running dog capitalist" – pick your favorite from the political epithet of the month club selection.

These are the same kind of people who cheered on the SA in Germany.

B

Oh for Pete's Sake….

A group of locals decide they want to move a statue (originally put up by the UDC or like group to glorify "Southern Heritage") because they've out grown that old canard and move on and others (not local) decide its an all out attack on God, Motherhood and The American Way led by an evil cabal of leftist/marxist/socialist/-ists. Good Lord, People!

GET A LIFE!

Charlie.."Italwars- You do realize the book was written as a response to the McCarthy era witch hunts, don't you? Lead by that scion of liberalism, Joseph McCarthy? Yeah, you don't…"

of course i do..are'nt we assisting to a big hunt vs freedom of speech, of thinking vs and values from this new globalist police of the minds now engaged in destroyng statues.? certainly worst than MCarthism?

"And now we have the uber right invoking Alinsky (whose tactics, BTW, have been used by both the left and the right"

of course…we all know that..and what's wrong?..
i used to direct, just for the theory, my students of a Political Summer School (of course right wing) in which i teached ..to read "Guerilla Warfare manual" from Che Guevara…
à la guerre comme à la guerre Charlie 12

Most of the outrage is coming from old people upset that their lost cause statues are going away. They were promised they'd be tired of winning so much and it hasn't materialized, so they're bleating as much as they can.

" Most of the outrage is coming from old people upset that their lost cause statues are going away."

Muggins..your tastes are bizzarre..do you mean those kind of "enraged" old people?:

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Cool photo. I wonder why they're ignoring the guy on the right?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

..because the man on the right is too serious…but i suppose he had changed his mind after the photo

Yeah I'm sure that's it.

i used to direct, just for the theory, my students of a Political Summer School (of course right wing) in which i teached ..to read "Guerilla Warfare manual" from Che Guevara…
à la guerre comme à la guerre

Know your enemy … to paraphrase Sun Tzu.

Or Gen Patton in NA WWII at El Guttar, IIRC. He said, something about Rommel, like, "I read your Book … you %#$*#!

Most of the outrage is coming from old people

Most old people are always upset about something …

It seems like one side of the debate in this thread is posting what they think about the topic, and the other side is posting what they decided the other side thinks. The "tear down the statues" side doesn't seem to have anything left to contribute. I guess if you can't handle debating the people here, you just make up some straw man fantasy people to argue against and that's much easier.

It seems like the straw manning is going on in half page diatribes about marxism, BLM, antifa, etc. All of the '1984' comparisons, calling people SA, ALL YOU CAN SAY IS 'RACIST', etc. Slippery slope arguments equalizing Thomas Jefferson and Nathan Bedford Forrest, etc.

None of it related to the topic or the facts – the facts that have shown again and again in the thread that the statues were put up to perpetuate the lost cause myth.

Perhaps this will get the point across …..

B

very interestring Blutarski..i always had a déja vu feeling when listening and dealing with leftist people……the methods shown during this hunt vs statues…very coward indeed cause aimed vs people dead who cannot defend themselves or reply ..and not only by the extremist you mentioned but the very fact to participate in such disgusting action is the result of a well organised insurrectional campaign by a evil régime

While that video has nothing to do with the topic and only serves to continue to fuel the delusional hysteria over the last few pages, this video is from The American Civil War Museum and is presented by an actual historian, directly pertaining the topic at hand. Happy to help.

youtu.be/NfTcxeuAddc

very coward indeed cause aimed vs people dead who cannot defend themselves or reply ..and not only by the extremist you mentioned but the very fact to participate in such disgusting action is the result of a well organised insurrectional campaign by a evil régime

That's right! It's a evil left wing plot to remove pigeon crap becrusted statues! ITS THE THIN EDGE OF THE WEDGE, I TELLS YA!

That's just beyond bizarre…

The "tear down the statues" side doesn't seem to have anything left to contribute. I guess if you can't handle debating the people here, you just make up some straw man fantasy people to argue against and that's much easier.

That's because there really isn't much to say. The facts are straight forward and simple. As for the "pro-statue' side… Well, now we have dark intimations of vast leftist conspiracies out to destroy one and all. Yeah, its much easier to demonize one side as an evil left wing cabal (and they're good at it; the right has been doing it for years…).

Muggins! How dare you bring relevance into this topic! Don't you realize we're discussing the fate of Western Civilization, Motherhood and Apple Pie?!?!?

Good video, BTW…

muggins –
I did you the courtesy of viewing your YouTube post and find it to be the opinion of an academic, who believes that the erection of much Confederate memorial statuary during the "Jim Crow" period involved a degree of sub-rosa white supremacist causation. He's probably partly right.

Quite importantly, however, at no point in his presentation did he remotely suggest destruction of these memorials. In fact, he quite explicitly stated – "We are not the Taliban. We do not destroy monuments". He then agrees with a comment by a member of his audience to the effect that commentary in the local Black press is describing the issue as "a step backwards". Perhaps you missed those parts.

At the end of the day though, it seems that you still fail to see the real issue at hand – that this is an entirely manufactured scheme to sow racial discord and division. As Saul Alinsky was fond of saying – "The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the Revolution". And, if you fail to grasp the troubling importance of AntiFa members' applause in response to an address consisting entirely of quotations taken directly from Adolf Hitler ….. you are IMO missing the most important issue of all.

B

Charlie 12 – As always, thank you for your uniquely reasoned contributions to this important topic.

B

And yours, Blutarski, for transforming an essentially local issue into a treatise on the COMING REVOLUTION….

Really…

That last paragraph, holy cow. Where does anyone get enough tinfoil for a hat like that?

In regards to his statement about destruction etc, he's right. They shouldn't be destroyed. Just moved. He also mentioned the idea that perhaps putting up statues that will revere and honor people and symbols that are more modern and welcoming to the actual people that live there is a good idea. I asked why there aren't statues of former slaves and was told because they're not important. Rather telling.

It's a good video and a rather definitive (not 'opinion') history of the statues and he lays out the reasoning for everything. If you can find another source that shows they weren't put up for the reasons already outlined, I'll watch it. No conspiracy stuff about BLM or antifa or DNC or leftist aliens from Mars please though.

IT is a coming terror revolution and Well coordinated…laughable to label iT a local issue…the violent protesters also if choosen among the less educated ones , ugly looging and, for many, the scum of the societey unable to work or doing anything else except protesting..at least from the interviews..are in fact true professionals in what they re doing and not simply a part time local crowd that iT is against the statues

Italwars, you are consistent to a fault. Once more, a rant about the COMING REVOLUTION. You're as bad as the leftists of old who sternly spoke of not if, but when the revolution would come. All of whom are now in their late middle age with mortgages, kids in college, working as mid level managers or stock brokers and spend their weekends doing such radical things as watching football (and vote Republican). The difference is that they grew out of that early 'phase'. You, evidently, have not….

you're IMO missing the most important issue of all.

And you are looking for 'issues' where there are none at all…

". The difference is that they grew out of that early 'phase'. You, evidently, have not…."

Not really Charlie1..the reality is the opposite of what you said..maybe you belong to those kind of bizarre but sad people that you described in a too much opstimistic way..as you perfectly know….they still vote what they called "democrats" in fact they are the most conservative people on the earth, they still are the most boring people to meet, they still annoy us with matters that nobody care like "defense environment" and "civil rights" , their kids are in college, thanks to money frequentlyillegaly earned by their parents (university lobbies ecc…), but instead of having received a minimal dose of politness and elegance from their parents, they smoke hashish, they are allowed to sport ridicoulous tatoes and topknots being difficult to guess if they are women or men..on the opposite we use to and still practice sports, we are beautiful and smiling, enjoy life, read various books and pick up, as always, the prettiest girls….so please Charlie 12..do not be envious,change your mind, choose freedom and come with us

Dear Italian Wars. and Blutarski

I admire you both for your stamina I amazed that you can stomach the drivel from the representatives of the chattering classes.

Keep up the good work!

I pray that you be sustained.

I never suffered idiots gladly and now that I am retired and they don't pay me, I don't have to suffer them at all! Thanks for fighting the good fight.

I said my say and spent my time in the dawghouse for speaking the truth.

the truth???? idiots?
as yuo probably know Italian culture you've probably rknow this quotation from Tommasi Di Lampedusa:

"We were the Leopards, the Lions, those who'll take our place will be little jackals, hyenas; and the whole lot of us, Leopards, jackals, and sheep, we'll all go on thinking ourselves the salt of the earth"

from your last posting, and contrary to other that i've always apprecaited, i really do not know if you could side with the truth

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Keep fighting, you're going to be sick and tired of all the winning!

Midland-Lee High School

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Italwars- Wow! Some breathtaking assumptions there. And ALL wrong (as always).

so please Charlie 12..do not be envious,change your mind, choose freedom and come with us.

Envious??? Of YOU??? Now that's thoroughly hilarious…

And just in time…. Otto joins the tin foil hat brigade… I feel so much better for the future of Western Civilization…
Ya know, Antifa could make a killing selling tin foil to all you conspiracy honks…

I think statues should be judged on their artistic merit. Forget the politics, if the statue looks good, keep it up.

I think statues should be judged on their artistic merit. Forget the politics, if the statue looks good, keep it up.

In that case I fully support removing this statue of Forrest:

Taken from a recent column to illustrate why this topic is all a lot more complicated than some would have us believe:

"Confederate Gen. William Mahone, one of General Robert E. Lee's most able commanders, owned slaves before the Civil War. But after the war, he led an interracial political movement. He organized and became the leader of the Readjuster Party, the most successful interracial political alliance in the post-emancipation South. In 1881, Mahone was elected to the U.S. Senate, at the time split 37-37 between Republicans and Democrats. But Mahone aligned with the Republicans, the party founded two decades earlier by Northerners trying to stop the expansion of slavery.

From 1879 through 1883, Mahone's Readjuster Party dominated Virginia, with a governor in the statehouse, two Readjusters in the U.S. Senate and Readjusters representing six of the state's 10 congressional districts. Under Mahone's leadership, his coalition also controlled the state legislature, the courts and many of the state's coveted federal offices. The Readjusters established what became Virginia State University, the first state-supported college to train black teachers. Democrats described the hated Readjusters and Republicans as advocates of "black domination."

What about Lt. Gen. James Longstreet? One of Lee's favorite generals, Longstreet not only became a Republican after the war and served in Republican administrations but also fought against the racist White League in New Orleans.
After the Civil War, Longstreet moved to New Orleans, where he urged Southerners to support the Republican Party and endorsed their candidate, Ulysses S. Grant, for president in 1968. He commanded blacks in the New Orleans Metropolitan Police Force against the anti-Reconstruction White League (a paramilitary arm of the Democratic Party) at the Battle of Liberty Place in 1874. He was shot and held captive for several days. He accepted political appointments from Republicans, and even dared criticize Gen. Lee. For this "betrayal," white Southerners pronounced Longstreet a "scalawag" and "leper of the community."

Where does this viewing of history through the prism of modern-day feelings end? Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once gave advice to a gay young man that today would be heresy. King suggested he battle his feelings, strongly implying that the young man needed therapy and sexual re-orientation. Today, that kind of advice gets one branded a Neanderthal."

B

….. and here is what makes it even more difficult to understand the truth of what is going on around us.

"We must be ready to employ trickery, deceit, law-breaking, withholding and concealing truth … We can and must write in a language which sows among the masses hate, revulsion, and scorn toward those who disagree with us."

V. I. Lenin

B

Ignoring yet another bizarre attempt to fuel the delusional paranoia, how many statues were put up to celebrate Longstreet or Mahone doing the right thing?

Blutarski…thanks for your courage and your commitment…rarely seen such a clear and detailed stance to counter disinformation and coward explanations with which they aimed at smother truth and dignity of people…that campaign vs statues is good occasion for unmask people

"We must be ready to employ trickery, deceit, law-breaking, withholding and concealing truth … We can and must write in a language which sows among the masses hate, revulsion, and scorn toward those who disagree with us."

A playbook aptly used by MANY on the right, these days. Or haven't you noticed?

rarely seen such a clear and detailed stance to counter disinformation and coward explanations with which they aimed at smother truth and dignity of people…that campaign vs statues is good occasion for unmask people

SHEESH!! Italwars, its about moving some statues. And thats ALL its about. Get a grip!

In that case I fully support removing this statue of Forrest:

YIPES!!! I don't care who the statue is supposed to depict, even George Washington, if it looked like that, its got to come down! (That thing is just plain scary!)

The city council in Los Angeles has renamed Columbus Day as Indigenous peoples Day. So when do the Columbus statues start coming down? When does the madness end?

Scotts,

What's wrong with that mighty fine representation of Forrest? I think it looks awesome and real sophisticated, real pretty too. What's there not to like?

I think statues should be judged on their artistic merit. Forget the politics, if the statue looks good, keep it up.
In that case I fully support removing this statue of Forrest:

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Take it down for no other reason than it is ugly. Just say no to ugly art.