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"GW figure change" Topic


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1,187 hits since 11 Aug 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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The H Man11 Aug 2017 10:45 p.m. PST

What with the new super marines and all.

Why is it some GW figure changes have a game based reasoning and some do not? Of course it's all about money, in reality, but that's not as much fun.

Model changes that have background in attempt to explain changes:
Tyranids new hive fleet.
Marines new makes of Armour, genetics
Lizard men , I think it was a new spawning?
Aos, world blew up groan.

Model changes that are a simple cash grab (yes, I do dangle carrot):
Necrons
Orc

Sometimes they are a nice update. Some times pointless or just bad (cold ones).


There are loads of others in both camps.
Thoughts?

emckinney11 Aug 2017 11:00 p.m. PST

Some of the older miniatures really look primitive. Bell of Lost Souls has been running a series of retrospective articles looking at units in 2nd ed. and their miniatures, and comparing them to the current miniatures, especially when the miniature hasn't been updated in all that time (or sometimes one update many years ago). Many people would just be embarrassed to put such crude figures on the table and most of those figures just don't match the evolved aesthetic of their faction. The Slaanesh greater demon is a good example.

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Brennus12 Aug 2017 1:13 a.m. PST

Hmmm..the old "crude" miniature looks better to me than the newer, overly detailed figure. Each to his own I suppose!

Hades wolf12 Aug 2017 1:41 a.m. PST

Oh and its Tzeentch not Slaneesh LOL and I for one prefer the old one, the new one looks a little like a mutant chicken to me…. chaos, cluck of death!

Palewarrior Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2017 1:47 a.m. PST

We have gone from fielding gaming pieces on the table, to display models. Some of which are actually awkward to use in a game, due to snappy, fiddly bits and "dramatic poses".

Not that I'm complaining as Hive fleet "mostly painted" will attest ;-)

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2017 2:14 a.m. PST

I'll take the old one, thank you.

The H Man12 Aug 2017 2:40 a.m. PST

Ditto on the older model. It has Jim Henson appeal.

I feel older figs may be based on such things, while newer ones are mostly based on computer games.

Again with the Lord of change, there was no text to my knowledge that stated the guy went in for a make over.

The middle mini of him was fine, from the 90s.

Personal logo mrwigglesworth Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2017 4:21 a.m. PST

Not a 40k player for starters but have been talking to a lot of them locally. They are super excited about 8th edition and the new miniatures. 40k. Is always evolving ( remember the squats felt ignored and moved to Mantic 😋 ). I know that GW is a for profit company and needs to update to sell new product to stay in business. If the players love it they will keep playing and buying the game will go on. As far as the "new" modern models technology has changed and they can be sculpted on computer with much more details then ever before.

Personal logo mrwigglesworth Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2017 4:29 a.m. PST

I do love old school miniatures my self especially Ral Partha and RAFM. The only GW games I own are LotR SBG and Inquisitor. Over past three or four months I have started two AOS Stormcast and Khorne armies. I got started with the $33 USD dollar Storm of Sigmar set. I would say GW was pretty smart with that one. Now I have just picked up the $40 USD 8th edition 40k first strike set. We will see what happens.

KniazSuvorov12 Aug 2017 5:13 a.m. PST

Looking at the minis from the perspective of a painter and collector, the new ones are much more exiting. Twenty years ago, paying GW prices for not-very-good miniatures was insane; I'm impressed GW managed to survive selling them.

Nowadays, there's at least a sense that you get what you pay for. Prices have pretty much kept pace with inflation, but quality has improved immeasurably.

The GW decision to produce boxed games using only units from their core franchises is especially welcome. There is no more Necromunda (which may have been a great game, but the models were useless for anything except Necromunda).

Am I going to go out and collect a 40k or AoS army? No; for me, the price point for that is still ludicrous. But I'll happily snap up a boxed game or two, or browse eBay for models that appeal to me. That never used to happen.

The H Man12 Aug 2017 5:39 a.m. PST

I find their figures 20 years ago superior to today's offerings. They still had metal for a start. Plastics so worthless they seem to be burying it instead ofrecycling it because it is cheaper to do so. Also they were casts replicating real sculptures, not some computer chap. Also they were designed as game pieces, durable. Even the plastics. Also plastic detail socks, fur and hair especially.

As for necromunda figs not having 40k use, guard arn't all cadians and Rambo wannabes. And on that train, how many sigmar marines run around with footballs anyway?

Personal logo mrwigglesworth Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2017 6:07 a.m. PST

H man everyone has an opinion and your is just as valid. Computer design has come so far that it is the way of things now. We all remember the glory days but still must move on or be stuck in the past. Plastic is so much lighter and durable for miniatures its amazing. I dropped three Stormcast off the painting table onto hardwood flooring! Nothing broke! If they were metal it would have been a mess. Also the detail on the new plastics is amazing. If you don't like GW as a policy that's cool but if you are open minded check out some of the newer models. I saw some on ebay as low as .99. The start collecting sets a really great and a pretty good deal. Thanks.

Personal logo mrwigglesworth Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2017 6:14 a.m. PST

If you want to see for yourself and try them out The War store has the Storm of Sigmar box for $28.05 USD
link
and 40K First Strike for $34.00 USD
link

The H Man12 Aug 2017 6:27 a.m. PST

Plastics are made in steel molds. So undercuts are problematic. Metal is cast in flexible rubber molds, so more 3d detail is achievable.

It's not about the past or nostalgia. Plastics were bad back then also. However Gw rightly used them as an optional alternative to the more expensive metal for grunt troops. Now there is no option.

GW is not alone in pumping out plastics and they sure were not the first. They have just become too streamlined and sterile in their products for me and, I am sure, others.

The content of white dwarf is pretty telling. Now it's just a catalog. The only good thing in it is their flash back pages that slipped by the editors.

The H Man12 Aug 2017 6:33 a.m. PST

I did see them. I wander why they suddenly go cheap on a starter set? More importantly it's the first main game starter with colored plastic, that I have noticed. Typically a thing of their board games. Hmm…

The Beast Rampant12 Aug 2017 7:57 a.m. PST

Some of the older miniatures really look primitive

Many people would just be embarrassed to put such crude figures on the table

I would hardly call that "primitive". Back in the stone age, when phones were still tethered to the wall, minis were playing pieces, not unreasoningly overpriced, 4-D sculptures that took up half the table. The utility of GW miniatures has diminished rapidly, while the scale and price creep climbs ever higher.

That Tzeenchian greater daemon cost me ten bucks. I have fielded it many times, and still would to this day. They should have charged $100 USD, because you know, you buy less of them than you would a goblin spearmen.

I find many of GW's huge plastic minis beautiful and intriguing, but there's a tiresome excess to them that does not inspire me to actually own one.

KniazSuvorov12 Aug 2017 8:07 a.m. PST

They have just become too streamlined and sterile in their products

This is the argument I find surprising. Some people don't like the new aesthetic, and I get that. Some people just don't like plastic, and I get that too. There are cases where plastic does have trouble capturing detail.

But to call modern sculpts "sterile" in comparison to the old days is… strange. Twenty years ago we had units where every figure was literally in the same pose. As much fun as I had back then hacking off pewter arms and repositioning them to get some variety, I'll take the dynamism, variety, and ease-of-use of modern plastics in a heartbeat.

But hey, to each his (or her, or its) own, right? If you like the old school, more power to you.

As for the cheap starter sets, that's just 21st century marketing. In the era of geek chic and spoil-the-kids, it makes perfect financial sense to offer something in the "impulse buy" price range.

haywire Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2017 8:55 a.m. PST

Why is it some GW figure changes have a game based reasoning and some do not?

Most of the changes were caused by a new sculptor being hired who feels they can do better/different. I have seen this with other lines, not just GW.

Dream Pod 9 has had their mechs change about 4? times now, not including the scale change. All because they have a new sculptor. It would have been nice if they said "Oh these are from Terra Nova Year X and are the new model." But they don't.

Soda Pop totally revamped most of Relic Knights with new models.

Privateer Press has resculpted most of their minis basically saying the war has "moved on"

alpha3six12 Aug 2017 11:57 a.m. PST

But to call modern sculpts "sterile" in comparison to the old days is… strange.

I think this is because certain CAD sculpts are so predictable and uninspiring that they seem "sterile". At least with the old hand sculpted stuff, the frequent horribad sculpts were interesting to look at, even if they inspired only revulsion and ridicule.

Sameyness in the multipart kits isn't as much of a problem is it is with the monopose characters, which in my opinion, are usually locked in boring poses and speckled with slightly more detail than a line trooper and given a ridiculous cape, and don't add much value beyond their in-game exalted status.

With that being said, I would not go back to the old models in most cases.

roving bandit12 Aug 2017 7:45 p.m. PST

I do believe the new "scale" to GW minis comes from the loss to Chapterhouse(?). Since other companies could make compatible parts for their models, it was time to make new models out of "scale" with what the other guys are doing…
That is just my theory.
I personally like the Primaris Marines and have a sizable (mind the pun) collection of Stormcast Eternals.

GypsyComet13 Aug 2017 11:48 a.m. PST

"it was time to make new models out of "scale" with what the other guys are doing"

Which is hilarious, since at least one of those resin companies was doing bigger not-Marines years ago.

Centurio Prime14 Aug 2017 6:43 a.m. PST

If they are trying to change the scale to stop compatible parts from working, then why would they make Primaris compatible with normal Space Marine shoulder pads?

Just more conspiracy theory.

haywire Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2017 8:32 a.m. PST

The main thing that came out of the Chapterhouse battle was renaming of everything to something more defendable than "Space Marine" or Lizardman or Elf.

alpha3six14 Aug 2017 10:07 a.m. PST

The third party garage operations are more flexible than GW so they can adapt to whatever scale change occurs. It's not like they have stockpiles of resin parts, they cast to order and are quick to pounce to fill perceived gaps in GW's range.

The H Man14 Aug 2017 7:49 p.m. PST

So primaris alternative parts will soon be on the way then.

GypsyComet15 Aug 2017 9:34 p.m. PST

Maybe. GW seems to be putting off the multi-part posable Primaris as long as possible. With no simple component swap built in, the third party casters would need to get dangerously close to "recast and modify", which I'm sure GW will be watching for.

What GW has done, by all reports, is cease production of the older "short" Marines. The gamble is that the market is glutted enough to choke off the resin options folks. We'll see.

The H Man15 Aug 2017 10:44 p.m. PST

First fantasy battles now iconic space marines. A Name change to warhammer was mentioned.

What's next to be axed?

Prepainted figs and no paints? It is logical but they make too much out of paints.

Chipping or barcoding minis to become digital. Lame, but possible. Then we can use tablets instead of rules and dice…

Bob Runnicles16 Aug 2017 10:48 a.m. PST

"The content of white dwarf is pretty telling. Now it's just a catalog. The only good thing in it is their flash back pages that slipped by the editors."

The current White Dwarf is far better than it used to be – there are interesting battle reports, painting tutorials, conversion articles, new rules (on occasion) plus things like Blanchitsu and the flashback section. Now the weekly WD was a 2+ years experiment that ultimately failed and I'm not unhappy with that lol.

The H Man16 Aug 2017 2:53 p.m. PST

Yes. Especially blanchitsu.

However it is not the same. You need to take a look. You won't find scratch built terrain anymore, like there used to be. Nor deodorant bottle tanks or suvaneir shop castles and the like. Even all the art work (and c g pictures) is all in house losing the individual flair of commissioned works. Today the entire company and products are so refined and sterile. There's no artistic interest or a scence of individuality from the creative teem. You used to be able to tell who sculpted a model, painted a mini, created a picture, even wrote something at a glance. Now you can only tell it's by GW, and that's a shame.

The sense of the situation is similar to my gripe with children's television. In stead of stop motion, hand drawn animation, train sets, clay mation, costumes and so on, most shows are now cgi. And where is the artistic influence or inspiration in that. Its refined rubbish like white suger.

Blanchitsu is great. But even this now seems so refined it is almost a product line.

On that note why isn't he designing minus for them? (Assuming he's not)

Legion 417 Aug 2017 5:59 a.m. PST

Something I always mention about GW/FW. Regardless of the figures they produce. We all have to remember … they are in business to make a profit, i.e. $$$$. And I really have no problem with that. So I know since my involvement in '90 with this company, they always have not did, do or make things I liked. But I understand I was not the only guy out there they had to satisfy.

And I'll freely admit over that past few decades, I thought their minis were way over the top for my tastes, etc. And their rules were not my cup of grog. So I looked elsewhere.

I do nothing but 6mm Sci-fi now. So I'm fortunate that today I have many other options to choose from with genre' …

Centurio Prime17 Aug 2017 6:23 a.m. PST

I don't know why more people don't have Legion 4's attitude. I like GW stuff and have fun playing the games, but if I didn't I would just play something else, not embark on a daily internet jihad against them.

Bob Runnicles17 Aug 2017 6:29 a.m. PST

I don't need to take a look, H Man, I've been in this game since White Dwarf #18 lol – should I start to complain about their lack of RPG coverage for games from other companies too? I remember reading the awesome 'Halls of Tizun Thane' adventure and Oliver Dickinson's Griselda stories for Runequest for the first time, where have those articles been for the last two and a half decades? Oh that's right, they got replaced by articles on making Mat Irvine/Blake's Seven style deodorant bottle spaceships and tanks. Times move on, tastes change and a lot of things like that just wouldn't fly in this day and age. Things like the VDR from several 40K editions ago (Vehicle Design Rules) were awesome but with everything so focused on 'balance' these days there's just no way to make them work to everyone's satisfaction and it would just end up causing more arguments among players.

Towards the end of the original monthly run and the few years it ran weekly I would agree that WD was at a very low point but since the move back to a monthly it's back to being a good, fun read again. I'll take it over what we had for the last 3-4 years for sure :)

GypsyComet17 Aug 2017 9:31 a.m. PST

The "make a profit" argument applies to many more companies in this industry than GW, and most of them manage to not be hated for it. The difference? GW is publicly traded. Their "customers" are no longer the players of their games, but the stockholders. Making THEM happy always comes first.

And the players of their games know it. They see it in every move GW makes, and every spun statement in their annual stockholder statement. THAT is where the hate comes from.

alpha3six17 Aug 2017 12:59 p.m. PST

Gw is a company that has made millions selling variations of essentially the same product since 1990 (when the look of the various marks was established in their current form). What other toy/game company has done something like this with the same degree of success?

I think they can be justified in trying to refresh their best selling product (marines) for the first time in a significant way in almost 30 years.

We can disagree over whether the actual changes are good, but change was always inevitable.

Because of GW's longevity, we hold them to a higher standard, that no one, not even the mythical golden age GW, can meet.

I may hate the new marines, but for now I'm glad GW hasn't wound up in the same place as their golden age contemporaries.

Legion 417 Aug 2017 2:06 p.m. PST

The "make a profit" argument applies to many more companies in this industry than GW, and most of them manage to not be hated for it. The difference? GW is publicly traded. Their "customers" are no longer the players of their games, but the stockholders. Making THEM happy always comes first.
As I have said before, we shouldn't get too upset about this entire paradigm. It revolves around grown men[and some women] playing with what most of the world calls "toys" …

IMO when it comes to a choice of any kind … e.g. if I don't like McDonald's burgers … I can get some good chow at ARBY's ! Or Burger King, Wendy's, DQ, Taco Bell, etc., etc., … evil grin

picture

GypsyComet19 Aug 2017 2:06 a.m. PST

GW has done annoying things for many years, but the one that I will likely never forgive them for is introducing the phrase "tons of" to gaming marketers.

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP19 Aug 2017 10:54 a.m. PST

"The sense of the situation is similar to my gripe with children's television. In stead of stop motion, hand drawn animation, train sets, clay mation, costumes and so on, most shows are now cgi. And where is the artistic influence or inspiration in that. Its refined rubbish like white suger."

You know there is something to this. There are a lot of other things that have been ruined by modern technology. I was just coming back to Pa from NJ today and it only took me 5 hours instead of the days that it used to take before these damned horseless carriages were invented. You don't get a chance to meet new people on the way hardly any more, nor take in much of the scenery as you're racing along at 70+ mph. A journey was something you really needed to prepare for.

Now where is the foresight? The ability to plan? No where, you get in, gas up and go. You don't even have to stop for food and certainly not sleep.

The H Man21 Aug 2017 2:15 a.m. PST

I agree with pics. It's not the destination, it's the journey that counts.

Bob Runnicles21 Aug 2017 9:20 a.m. PST

Except I think his point is that the journey is far faster than it used to be thanks to the modern invention of cars, and that this is not a bad thing lol.

Centurio Prime21 Aug 2017 12:16 p.m. PST

extreme sarcasm alert

Albino Squirrel21 Aug 2017 12:31 p.m. PST

I can't believe that anyone who owns any GW miniatures from 20 years ago and any from today could possibly argue that they were better 20 years ago. That is sheer delusion.

GypsyComet21 Aug 2017 10:19 p.m. PST

Most of my Blood Angels are from 20 years ago, and I'll take them over the plastic nonsense they updated with a few years back. Similarly, they had to discontinue the old metal Space Wolves outright in order to sell new ones, because they've never approached the quality of the originals.

The 2e metal IG (Cadians, Mordians, Catachans, and Valhallans) remain superior miniatures to the IG available today.

And it looks like the return of Necromunda will be marred by head-and-shoulders scale creep.

A miniature that cannot be transported to a game is worthless. GW has little sense of this anymore as their studio minis travel all of fifty feet to a photo shoot from the display case. By hand. Out in the real world super glue is a constant traveling companion.
We won't even talk about the Forge World resins that can't handle a car ride in summer.

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