Jlundberg | 08 Aug 2017 6:08 a.m. PST |
I know many lean towards the Patriot. I am inclined towards AMC's Turn. All British officers are supercilious and ignorant. Queen's Rangers are near criminals to the man. Washington is completely dependent on the guidance of of a young dragoon officer |
Winston Smith | 08 Aug 2017 6:24 a.m. PST |
That's one of the reasons I never bothered to watch Turn. |
Cerdic | 08 Aug 2017 6:54 a.m. PST |
This'll be the American Revolution then? Not one of those other revolutions in someplace unimportant… |
Wackmole9 | 08 Aug 2017 8:03 a.m. PST |
I liked the crossing but not Patriot or the spy based ones. |
Ottoathome | 08 Aug 2017 8:06 a.m. PST |
umm… there's not many of them, in fact, I doubt there's not ANY of them. I don't count "The patriot" as a movie. A decent film on he Revolution has yet to be made. |
21eRegt | 08 Aug 2017 8:28 a.m. PST |
I was impressed by "The Scarlet Coat" though in part because of when it was made. |
Pan Marek | 08 Aug 2017 8:55 a.m. PST |
Sorry. I like Turn (although it may be in part because I grew up near Setauket). Washington does not take all his advice from Tallmadge, and I think the actor playing Washington is very believable. The depiction of Simcoe is very bad, but note that his troops' reputation (to this day) on L.I. is very much like the legends of Tarleton in The South. In the end, somebody has to be the baddie, and the other Brits have balanced portrayals. The issue is whether the series deals well with the issues presented in the AWI- divided loyalties, espionage, small raids, the difficulties of keeping the Continental Army together. In that, the series gives a general audience a reasonable dramatization. And the costumes, sets and locations are pretty darn good. My general impression with TMP film/TV discussions is that nothing would ever satisfy. |
Der Alte Fritz | 08 Aug 2017 9:11 a.m. PST |
Isn't Turn based on an actual spy ring working for Washington? I thought that in The Patriot the fire fights with muskets looked fairly realistic, but then they ruined it by having the lines break into a mass melee, which was stupid.
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Ironwolf | 08 Aug 2017 9:32 a.m. PST |
I didn't like the Patriot or Turn until people on TMP started to nit pick them. Then I realized they are not historical documentaries. They are done for entertainment, now I like them both. hahaha |
miniMo | 08 Aug 2017 9:42 a.m. PST |
@Pan Marek: you are correct, this is not the den of movie afficionados you are looking for. So many people here just want documentaries of field manuals! @Ottoathome: The Devil's Disciple (1959) is quite decent! link As is 1776. Many movies made, I have not seen most of them: imdb.com/list/ls076040820 |
Doug MSC | 08 Aug 2017 9:45 a.m. PST |
I like all of them. What is fiction, I count as fiction but still like the movie. |
StoneMtnMinis | 08 Aug 2017 10:14 a.m. PST |
Current American public school testbooks. |
Pan Marek | 08 Aug 2017 11:01 a.m. PST |
Stone Mtn- Can you give an example? Minimo- Hmmm….. you may have something there. How about one based on the M16 instruction book that had cartoon babes? |
GROSSMAN | 08 Aug 2017 11:28 a.m. PST |
Wargamers will never be happy with a war movie because reality sometimes isn't as entertaining. Also stop bashing Patriot it's the best we have got. I look at that like I react to people bitching about new rules or figures, if you think you can do better then knock yourself out, otherwise shut your pie hole. |
42flanker | 08 Aug 2017 11:45 a.m. PST |
Unforced errors…..an imaginative engagement with the reality can be a lot more gripping than lazy fiction. |
gisbygeo | 08 Aug 2017 12:39 p.m. PST |
'Das Boot' Not only was it set in a submarine, but it was a WW2 submarine. Worst depiction of the AWI ever. |
Rawdon | 08 Aug 2017 1:00 p.m. PST |
For those who have read Hackett-Fischer's Paul Revere's Ride, I have often thought that this book could be the basis for a dynamite movie that is both entertaining and accurate. For humor, we have Hancock's salmon. For romance, we have the rumors that Gage's American wife spilled the beans (to help the entertainment side of the ledger, a little more skirt would probably have to be granted artistic license). The ingredients are all there. |
HANS GRUBER | 08 Aug 2017 1:28 p.m. PST |
Probably not the worst, but the 2015 mini series Son's of Liberty was pretty bad. |
Old Contemptibles | 08 Aug 2017 1:32 p.m. PST |
History and entertainment are not mutually exclusive you can have both. Reality is almost always more entertaining. Film makers can pick any moment in time. So it shouldn't be too hard find an entertaining yet historical subject. It does not need to be a documentary. Docudrama is what your looking for, something like Tora! Tora! Tora!. A docudrama provides a film maker with more latitude to make it an entertaining movie. No movie will be 100% historical, that would make it a documentary. Movies like "Gettysburg", "Zulu", "Waterloo" and "Glory" are historical and entertaining. Its the blending of the two. Sometimes film makers get the blending part wrong. link TMP link |
dBerczerk | 08 Aug 2017 3:33 p.m. PST |
Of all the many programs on the American Revolution currently airing, AMC's TURN is clearly the worst depiction. |
Jlundberg | 08 Aug 2017 3:34 p.m. PST |
My particular nit with Turn is the depiction of Benedict Arnold |
Captain Avatar | 08 Aug 2017 8:58 p.m. PST |
"Revolution" with Al Pacino. |
basileus66 | 08 Aug 2017 10:13 p.m. PST |
My problem with Turn is that it is tedious. |
Rdfraf | 08 Aug 2017 11:38 p.m. PST |
"Zulu" was historical? The best parts of the movie never happened , the counting of the guns, Men of Harlech and the salute to fellow braves was all fiction but it served to make a great movie. And I really liked the Patriot! Sure, it wasn't perfectly accurate but it was fun! |
Gunfreak | 09 Aug 2017 6:51 a.m. PST |
I didn't like the Patriot or Turn until people on TMP started to nit pick them. Then I realized they are not historical documentaries. They are done for entertainment, now I like them both. hahaha There is a difference between entertainment and entertaining propaganda. The Patriot is clearly propaganda. Also, There is a difference between a movie that has many historical faults and one that has absolutely everything wrong. The Patriot could have used star wars blasters and it would have been exactly as historically correct as it is. Every single thing is wrong in it. From battles, costumes, and history. It makes The battle of the Bulge seem like a Ken Burns documentary. |
Early morning writer | 09 Aug 2017 7:08 a.m. PST |
Hisstory: a controversial subject sometimes treated well by authors, sometimes not. If it's not controversial and fully settled, its just an entry in an encyclopedia. Documentary: an expression of a view of an event in a visual medium. Movie: a dramatic entertainment in a visual medium. Historical Drama: a dramatic entertainment in a visual medium set in a 'recognizable' setting using costumes. (or maybe a stage play – or even puppetry) A so-called historical movie, if done well, tells the story of a central character in such a way as the audience of the time can relate to the character. Thus, a movie made fifty years ago will be targeting a different audience than a movie made today. Using Tora, Tora, Tora as an example of what we are after? I almost fell off my chair laughing. You may personally enjoy the movie but, seriously? That was one of the worse reviewed movies ever, I remember the ads and reviews for it and that thing got dogged terribly. Almost as bad as if it had been made, oh, in the era of the internet and world wide web where every negative voice gets its own personal bull horn. A movie is a form of entertainment, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But a 'historical' movie is never, ever History, just a setting for telling a story. The expressions in this diatribe are solely the opinion of the author, something to which we are all entitled. And something we all have – along with, um, anatomicals. |
basileus66 | 09 Aug 2017 9:58 a.m. PST |
I don't care as much for historical accuracy as for historical credibility. When I watch a movie where the British in the AWI are portrayed as Nazis with redcoats, credibility goes out the window; if it is a Christian knight in the Holy Land becoming all New Age, then credibility goes out of the window. Those decisions of script, which add nothing of value to the story itself, put me out of the story. |
Liliburlero | 09 Aug 2017 11:04 a.m. PST |
Agree 100% with Captain Avatar. "Revolution" with Al Pacino was very, very painful to watch….. |
spontoon | 09 Aug 2017 11:36 a.m. PST |
Revolution was a Joy compared to Turn!!! |
Winston Smith | 09 Aug 2017 11:38 a.m. PST |
Sweet Liberty was actually fun to watch, as it showed Hollywood hacks firing canister into historical accuracy. |
Pan Marek | 09 Aug 2017 2:36 p.m. PST |
Basil- Good point. Avoidance of anachronisms. |
Ironwolf | 09 Aug 2017 3:01 p.m. PST |
Grossman said, "if you think you can do better then knock yourself out, otherwise shut your pie hole." Well said Sir! lol
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basileus66 | 09 Aug 2017 9:58 p.m. PST |
if you think you can do better then knock yourself out, otherwise shut your pie hole. So, if you go to a restaurant and the food is as bad as it gets you don't complain at all, but go to the kitchen and cook your dinner yourself! |
dBerczerk | 13 Aug 2017 7:29 a.m. PST |
An inspiring conclusion to the AMC series "TURN" yesterday evening. Nice 'wrap-up" to the story line of all the main characters. For all its faults, I enjoyed it. Costuming was excellent -- Continental dragoons, Queen's Rangers, German troops, Native American warriors, Highlanders, even French grenadiers! |
Bill N | 13 Aug 2017 10:51 a.m. PST |
I look at that like I react to people bitching about new rules or figures, if you think you can do better then knock yourself out, otherwise shut your pie hole. As I have said elsewhere they have the right to make what they want. I have the right not to spend my money on it, and to voice my opinion on the quality. You have the right to ignore my opinion or to respond to it. That applies to figures, to rules and to historical movies. |
Major Bloodnok | 29 Aug 2017 6:48 p.m. PST |
"Never let the facts get in the way of the the story" I heard this on a radio interview of a director of another bad historical movie. |
Haitiansoldier | 30 Aug 2017 12:37 p.m. PST |
The Patriot is without a doubt the most inaccurate portrayal of the war but the battle scenes are excellent and probably what they were actually like. Turn gets the prize as the worst. |
42flanker | 30 Aug 2017 12:57 p.m. PST |
the battle scenes are excellent and probably what they were actually like. I don't believe the field at Cowpens (or was it Guilford Courthouse?), was peppered with high explosive shells bursting on impact- in the main ineffectually between the lines. Perhaps I'm mistaken. |
Gunfreak | 30 Aug 2017 2:06 p.m. PST |
Nor did ever in the history of warfare to lines March slowly up to 10 yards distance and trade volleys. It would be suicide. And unlike what people think. They weren't idiots or suicidal in the age of muskets. The battles in the patriot is what a 10 year old thinks battles in the old days were like. If you look at the last minute of one of the biopics of Churchill. There is a scene that shows a battle from the WSS. It last only a few seconds. Yet is far superior to the patriot. |
nevinsrip | 03 Sep 2017 12:00 a.m. PST |
You critics amaze me. Do any of you watch cop movies? Or Suspense/Mystery flicks? Pick the one you think is the most "authentic" and list it here. It will be my pleasure to rip it apart for you and point out all the various impossibilities and outright errors that you thought was so realistic. Go ahead. Pick your movie that you think represents "real" detective work. Movies are meant to entertain and make money for the companies that make them. That's it. Expecting anything more is foolishness. |
Gunfreak | 03 Sep 2017 8:25 a.m. PST |
Last time I checked most cop movies don't try and portray history. I doubt anyone claimed the story in Lethal weapon 2 happen. Yet lethal weapon is still more realistic than the patriot. It's better to take say band of brothers or Pacific. They made money. No they weren't perfect. But they showed at least some respect for history and reality. It's not that the patriot has some mistakes. It's to the extreme degree it has mistakes. Every thing is wrong. Flash Gordon is to the Apollo program what the patriot is to the American revolution. But Flash Gordon didn't pretend to be the Apollo program |
42flanker | 03 Sep 2017 8:45 a.m. PST |
Nevinsrip, the clue is in the title of the thread:"Worst Depiction of the Revolution" If the subject vexes you, you can always not bother to read the posts. |
nevinsrip | 03 Sep 2017 9:38 a.m. PST |
"Yet lethal weapon is still more realistic than the patriot." Oh really. And you know this how? Your vast experience in Policing? Fire ONE SHOT and you are placed on Modified Assignment. NO GUN , NO Shield, Assigned to a desk job until the Firearms Board meets and decides if the shooting was valid or not. Sound like lethal weapon to you? If the subject vexes you, you can always not bother to read the posts. The subject doesn't vex me. It's the stupidity of people who try to compare a movie to real life. |
Gunfreak | 03 Sep 2017 10:21 a.m. PST |
Oh really. And you know this how? Your vast experience in Policing? Fire ONE SHOT and you are placed on Modified Assignment. NO GUN , NO Shield, Assigned to a desk job until the Firearms Board meets and decides if the shooting was valid or not. Sound like lethal weapon to you? They are dressed appropriately for the 1980s. They mostly follow the laws of physics. They don't call cop cars for helicopters. They don't smear real historic peoples name. When someone shoots at them they take cover (appropriate tactics for the 1980s) |
nevinsrip | 03 Sep 2017 10:59 a.m. PST |
Gunfreak, Ask any law enforcement friend that you know and ask them their opinion of Lethal Weapon. Fantasy is the word that comes to mind.
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Gunfreak | 03 Sep 2017 11:42 a.m. PST |
It follow the perfectly standard action movie tropes. The patriot pretends to be history |
Bill N | 03 Sep 2017 12:47 p.m. PST |
I occasionally like to take a break from the world of toy soldiers by practicing law. Lawyers frequently laugh at the way the practice is portrayed in movies and on TV. Yet if you make allowances for entertainment value and presentation limitations there are some reasonably realistic portrayals of lawyers. Same can be said for a number of fields. Part of the reason for this is that the producers actually care about being realistic. They are not using the experts on set to simply provide jargon and costume information to provide window dressing for their stories. They are building the stories around the framework of realism that the experts provide. |
dBerczerk | 03 Sep 2017 3:32 p.m. PST |
My favorite scene in "The Patriot" was the short segment with the French Navy bombarding the Anglo-Allied army entrenched at Yorktown. Impressive CGI for its day. |
nevinsrip | 03 Sep 2017 3:56 p.m. PST |
"The patriot pretends to be history" It does? Please expound on exactly how a movie pretends to be anything but a movie. |
Gunfreak | 04 Sep 2017 7:06 a.m. PST |
The Patriot is a 2000 American epic historical fiction war film link I know of lots of people, who think that movie represents history, specifically the military part of it. And these are not 15-year-olds, these are intelligent, educated people. Yet they think that movie shows how 18th-century warfare was fought. No other movie that is so bad seems to have "educated" so many people. Nobody goes around thinking Lethal Weapon represent the real LAPD. And if they think SPR represent real history, it's not very good, but at least SPR isn't totally history fabrication. |