sneakgun | 07 Aug 2017 9:54 p.m. PST |
During the time period of Team Yankee, do the West Germans have nuclear weapons, if so what? Thanks,
Brian |
shaun from s and s models | 08 Aug 2017 1:08 a.m. PST |
i do not think they had any |
martin goddard | 08 Aug 2017 2:25 a.m. PST |
None at all. Are you using them on the table top? |
Fred Mills | 08 Aug 2017 5:20 a.m. PST |
The Germans are prohibited by the accession protocols to NATO in 1955 and by the terms of non-proliferation agreements thereafter from having nuclear weapons. However, they provide nuclear capable delivery vehicles to the Alliance in the event that tactical/sub-strategic weapons release is ordered by SACEUR. Currently, this means the much-reduced force of Tornado IDS aircraft carrying B-61 gravity bombs. It was once the case that SACEUR (an American general) could order German aircraft to deliver American nuclear ordnance without political reference to the FRG. It has since around 1968 been a so-called 'dual key' arrangement (according to publicly available data), in which the German chancellor has a say in the decision. The 'key codes' remain American, however, so there is no direct German control over the launch or activation process. Still, for gaming purposes, one could have Luftwaffe Tornados using B-61s. |
advocate | 08 Aug 2017 7:34 a.m. PST |
SPI's NATO had rules for nukes. If either side wished to use nukes, they could pour lighter fluid on the map and set it alight… |
robert piepenbrink | 08 Aug 2017 7:55 a.m. PST |
Instead of Team Yankee or any of the "Third World War 1985 series--or perhaps in addition to them--take a look at McGee and Moore's The Chinese Ultimatum, in which those dual-key nukes play a major role. Team Yankee rules and figures could play out many of the scenarios The Chinese Ultimatum would suggest. |
sneakgun | 08 Aug 2017 8:05 a.m. PST |
Someone posted a picture of a 6mm "scale" mushroom cloud. I wanted tp prank my opponents…. Thanks Robert, great idea.. |
Puster | 08 Aug 2017 10:12 a.m. PST |
"Nukes" are the "You lost, too" card of any WW3 game. Show it to your opponent when you are about to lose, and tell him you think about using it… |
mckrok | 08 Aug 2017 2:14 p.m. PST |
US had detachments with custody of the weapons for their allies. If necessary, the US would have unlocked and provided them to their allies for use. pjm |
Lion in the Stars | 08 Aug 2017 10:11 p.m. PST |
Yes, but those would have been delivered to US-ordered targets. West Germany would have had zero say in the matter. |
Fred Mills | 10 Aug 2017 6:37 a.m. PST |
Asked and answered above, and Lion is correct – especially (as far as is publicly known) in targeting. Other countries – Belgium, eg – had similar arrangements: supplying delivery systems for NATO Europe (which is to say American) payloads as determined by SACEUR, who was always American. US reluctance to share much in the nuclear realm was also legendary, even with close allies (Britain, Canada, FRG, etc.). Regarding nuclear-capable strike aircraft, eye protection against seared retinas and flash blindness was a serious challenge – leading to the use of eye patches, blast curtains, and eventually specialized helmets and goggles by flying crew, which raises an interesting possibility: some kind of saving role for eyesight if the aircraft drops its bomb? If the game or campaign has gone nuclear, however, this is probably a moot point!! |
EJNashIII | 11 Aug 2017 9:05 p.m. PST |
So, you got my curiosity. I what way could you actually use a nuke in a game? Even in 6mm even tactical nukes would pretty much destroy everything in the game. |
Fred Mills | 12 Aug 2017 4:44 a.m. PST |
It would almost certainly have to be part of a map or campaign game, but one in which the nuke's effects, or nukes' effects, were manifest on the table. These could be direct effects (e.g., a quadrant or portion of troops destroyed or incapacitated), or indirect (e.g., having to operate at a disadvantage due to lost supply, fighting in NBC gear, or widely dispersed). It would require some creativity, but it could be done. |
Lion in the Stars | 15 Aug 2017 9:36 p.m. PST |
The real question is groundscale. Classic Battletech had rules for nukes on the table, and those were 30m or 50m hexes (I forget which). Rules basically boiled down to "remove all terrain but hills within 30 hexes of detonation, water hexes become depressions" If you're working on 1"=100m groundscale, though, blast radii become more manageable. |