"Best rules for Burgundian wars" Topic

Hi gents.

Just wondering what options there are for large scale rules that best fit the Burgundian wars? I'm just getting started on a Swiss army and am keen to find a decent set of rules.

I've got a copy of Baroque but have still to try them in an ECW game, not sure of the period I have in mind as a little too early for that particular set.

Thanks heaps.

Ray

The Burgundian wars are much too early for Baroque, if you like that style of rules you are much better of with the same company's Impetus rules which IIRC includes a module written for the Burgundian Wars/Late 15th Century.

The choice of rules depends on what you consider to be "the best"? If you are looking for a set of rules which accuratly reproduces the tactics and challenges of that particular war you are out of luck as it simply does not exist. The language barrier has made the important sources too hard to get for most rules writers and the actual warfare in the period is too diffrent from the "typical" wargamers experience that common rules can't reproduce it with much accuracy.

Impetus. We use them extensively for the Burgundian through to the Italian Wars.

Basic Impetus was released earlier this year as entry level set – or the full version. But a Version 2 of the full set are likely towards the end of the year.

Daniel S. An interesting view. In what respect do you think wargames rules don't reflect the period?

Our rules should turn the trick. link

I have just published a Burgundian Ordonnance list for To the Strongest!, you could find it (and the rules) here. As for the best, well that's a very subjective thing- but the rules are pretty simple and most people seem to enjoy them. They certainly can cope with very large battles.

link
link

Best, Simon

Thanks so much guys. I did think about going straight to Impetus and will definitely buy a set. Also keen to try "To the Strongest" and "Art of war" however. You can never have too many rule sets!

Rules designers love your attitude. ;)

Khusrau,
In quite a fews ways but the single most important aspect is that I have yet to see a set of rules that rewards a player for using the actual Swiss battle formations, indeed in most rules I've seen it is not even possible to form up the troops in something that resembles a historical Swiss gevierthaufen".

Rules & army lists also tend to turn a blind eye to the flaws found in the Burgundian Army as an organisation such as it's demonstrated lack of army wide cohesion which was a major part in the defeat at Grandson.

As a results of this and other problems Burgundian-Swiss games tend to both look and play pretty diffrently compared to the actual battles. In some test games I have run the Swiss did not even reach the Grünhag in the face of archers & artillery that seemed able to deliver firepower levels more typical of late 19th C armies.

Daniel
A gevierthaufen afaik is just a column or phalanx in which the amount of men are the same in the front row as in ranks?
A lot of rules allow this but figures most of the times don't add anything to the fight.
The lack of organisation in burgundian army can imho also portrayed with houserules.

I play late medieval Swiss in Impetus and have played against Burgundians and I think the system does a pretty good job of replicating the strength and weaknesses of both sides. The Swiss are overwhelmingly strong at the point of attack but have challenges with flanks. Swiss move a bit fast than other heavy infantry and get certain deployment advantages which allow them to pounce on their opponent. The Burgundians have a hodge podge army of various troop types that gives them considerable flexibility.