Help support TMP


"were the Russian and Prussian gunners armed with muskets ?" Topic


16 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Napoleonic Discussion Message Board



584 hits since 1 Aug 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Osage2017 Inactive Member01 Aug 2017 6:49 p.m. PST

The French gunners carried muskets/carbines so I would expect the gunners from ALL other nations would have them too. Is this assumption correct ? Were there any gunners without muskets/carbines ?

Personal logo jeffreyw3 Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 6:52 p.m. PST

Russian gunners did not have muskets.

attilathepun4701 Aug 2017 10:45 p.m. PST

I am not positive that it held true throughout the Napoleonic era, but the Bavarian artillerists were armed only with pistols and short swords when manning their guns in the field. They probably had some muskets available for mounting guard or when on garrison duty.

Oliver Schmidt01 Aug 2017 11:53 p.m. PST

Between 1812 and 1815, Prussian artillerymen did not take their muskets into the field either.

Osage2017 Inactive Member02 Aug 2017 5:12 p.m. PST

I just found some pictures of Prussian and Russian gunners.
Although I don't see muskets, I see they carried cartridge boxes on campaign.

Is it a mistake made by the illustrators ?
Why carry the heavy ammo if one can't use it ? It makes no sense to me.

Oliver Schmidt02 Aug 2017 10:14 p.m. PST

Even after 1824, when muskets were abolished in the Prussian artillery also for peace time, the artillerymen continued to carry cartridge pouches. Surely, these didn't contain cartridges. I don't know what they contained .Maybe they were just empty ?

However, in at least a few of these cartridge pouches the fuse tubes which were inserted into the touchhole of the gun (German: Schlagröhre, French: étoupille) were kept.

I have seen re-enactors of French artillery, whose wooden box in the cartridge pouches was arranged to contain a rope with hook and handle, which was used to draw the gun. As they had artillery muskets, the wooden box had in addition a handful (5 or 6 ?) of holes for cartridges. I don't know how correct these re-enactment cartridge pouches are.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP03 Aug 2017 3:27 a.m. PST

The 'rope with hook and handle' would also be incorrect. Reenactors are a good thing, but they are not always accurate.

The cartridge pouches would undoubtedly be used to carry some artillery equipment, such as fuses.

Oliver Schmidt03 Aug 2017 8:52 a.m. PST

The 'rope with hook and handle' would also be incorrect. Reenactors are a good thing, but they are not always accurate.

The cartridge pouches would undoubtedly be used to carry some artillery equipment, such as fuses.

I asked the group, they have based their cartridge pouches on Petard's illustrations in Equipements Militaires de 1600 á 1870, vol. III, pp. 15, 76 (the latter shows foot artillery, not horse), and vol. IV, p. 13.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP03 Aug 2017 11:36 a.m. PST

The only problem is that the French didn't use 'a rope with hook and handle' for use in moving the piece with the crew only. And what they did use would not fit in a cartridge box.

Stoppage03 Aug 2017 12:01 p.m. PST

Toggle rope?

I'm sure I was issued with one of those during basic training. Main problem was where to store it – I think wrapped around my '58 belt kit.

Oliver Schmidt03 Aug 2017 1:12 p.m. PST

The only problem is that the French didn't use 'a rope with hook and handle' for use in moving the piece with the crew only. And what they did use would not fit in a cartridge box.
So what did they use ?

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP03 Aug 2017 2:25 p.m. PST

It was worn across the body like a crossbelt.

spontoon03 Aug 2017 2:36 p.m. PST

A bricole?

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP03 Aug 2017 3:44 p.m. PST

Yes, what else? ;-)

von Winterfeldt04 Aug 2017 11:55 a.m. PST

I see I confused threads, the re – enactment group is right and Brechtel198 is dead wrong

see

link

thanks to Oliver Schmidt.

It is also hilarious to think that fuses should be carried in cartridge boxes of artillery,to fire a cannon, usually an čtoupille was used – those were carried usually in a special box at the waist.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP04 Aug 2017 2:24 p.m. PST

I have not found reenactment groups to be a reliable source of historical information. At best, they are variable. And, they aren't soldiers or artillerymen.

I'll stick with Gassendi, Tousard, and the other artillery manuals I have which I have found over the years to be excellent sources of artillery information for the period.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.