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"Is this the Old West page or..." Topic


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995 hits since 31 Jul 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Early morning writer31 Jul 2017 5:59 p.m. PST

Okay, to each their own, of course. But there seems to be an increasing number of posts here that, really, have nothing to do with the historical Old West (generally the American west of the later 1800's but a smattering of Australian stuff, too). And I'm not talking about hypothetical scenarios loosely based on history or the cinematic Old West , those are both part of the 'canon'(excepting anything by Tarantino or Aliens and whatever that travesty was, and maybe A Million Ways To Die). I'm talking about sci-fi, fantasy and other 'weird' stuff that probably should be on some other page than Old West.

Or is it that there are so few people left visiting TMP with an interest in the Old West that it just seems there are too many such posts?

So, is this the Old West page or the Anything Goes as long as it is west of something (which means the entire universe) page?

Tell you the truth, if the weird will dominate, I'll have one less page of TMP to visit. But, again, to each their own. I just think there are pages for that stuff and this really isn't it.

OneHuaiTicket31 Jul 2017 6:10 p.m. PST

Out of 83 messages total on the board in the month of June, there were 14 messages that were Weird West, VSF, or Horror related, and a good number of those 14 were about Dracula's America, as the Nickstarter ran this month and ends tomorrow.
Seems like it isn't all that off the mark.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 6:47 p.m. PST

EMW: "So, is this the Old West page or the Anything Goes as long as it is west of something (which means the entire universe) page?"

If they use Western-themed figures, Western style buildings and terrain boards/features with mesas, cacti, reddish soil, prairies, canyons, etc, and they include horses and/or railroad-based transportation, and have the occasional cowboys, gunfighters, señoritas, saloons, and so many other frontier things in common… it most DEFINITELY belongs in the Old West Discussion Board!

Whenever we start a purist and separatist movement like what is being suggested here, invariably some of the new and amazing period accessories and terrain tips in one board will never percolate over to the other. In other words, we become poorer for it.

What if someone wants to have an Old West spinoff game and needs to start a thread 1) to both solicit tips from hardcore Old West modelers and 2) to inform those who might have already shown interest in the new fictional spinoff. Does he now have to start two separate threads because one group suddenly can't stand the sight of some non-canonical ideas?

Seriously, if you are really going to start making exclusions to the Old West Board, why don't you start by having an Authentic Old West Board and a different one for Hollywood Old West? Because if you guys didn't get all worked up over that, and go all purist back then, I just don't see why you suddenly talk about having a canonical Old West Board now.

In other words, if you want purity, your first step should be to separate Real Old West from Hollywood Old West. Otherwise this whole move loses its moral high ground.

So a discussion about the guns, horses, buildings, etc in the movie Red Sun (with Bronson and his samurai friend) should not be allowed in an authentic Old West Board then. Same goes for the tv series Wild Wild West and so many other fictional shows and movies.

And, while you're at it, go ahead and make new boards for Australian cowboys, Mexican cowboys, etc.

Dan

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Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 7:18 p.m. PST

OneHuaiTicket: "Out of 83 messages total on the board in the month of June, there were 14 messages that were Weird West, VSF, or Horror related"

EMW: "Tell you the truth, if the weird will dominate, I'll have one less page of TMP to visit."

Hmm. One way to make sure your favorite discussions are the ones that "dominate" is to start new and exciting threads about your specific scenarios and likes.

To tell you the truth, the excessive proliferation of sub boards has already gone past the ridiculous. I keep seeing people on now-separate sub boards ask almost the exact same questions sometimes. And then I keep hearing people complain that traffic on the sub sub boards is not as heavy as it was at first. At first I thought the whole situation was funny. Now I just think it's pretty sad.

Dan
PS. I think I better stop now. Today has been one of those days for me and it is clearly showing here.

Early morning writer31 Jul 2017 8:34 p.m. PST

"If they use Western-themed figures, Western style buildings and terrain boards/features with mesas, cacti, reddish soil, prairies, canyons, etc, and they include horses and/or railroad-based transportation, and have the occasional cowboys, gunfighters, señoritas, saloons, and so many other frontier things in common… it most DEFINITELY belongs in the Old West Discussion Board!"

Dan, you are entitled to your opinion but I respectfully disagree. I think this non-Old West stuff belongs either on the fantasy or sci-fantasy boards ('science'-fiction mostly disappeared years ago, in my opinion) – in pages where it fits right in. Not suggesting new pages, just more appropriate pages.

Dan, your logic in the quote above is susceptible to a variety of counter arguments.

But I'll go with the 14 out of 73 first. Please find any other historically focused board where almost 17% of the posts are not historical but fantasy/sci-fantasy focused. Please understand, I don't object to your interests or your creativity. But there needs to be some standard of what constitutes an appropriate topic on a board or the board looses its focus and thus looses its value to its core users.

You always have the option of coming to this – or any page – to ask questions to find items suited to what you are doing. But when the core focus of a project fits somewhere else better, I think it should be focused there.

Now, back to your logic Dan, Cowboys and Aliens was very much NOT a western just because it had 'cowboys' in it. It was a science fiction story. Your recent thread where I posted was not my inspiration for this post, not on its own, just the one that pushed me to make this post. You are a very creative individual with a wild imagination but I cannot agree that just because many elements of a game look 'western' that makes it a western. You put a Sherman tank in the mix and its not western or historical anymore, at least not the Old West. To keep historical, the technology needs to stay within what existed at the time, or a direct extrapolation of the technology at the time. Notice that thought does not restrict using a wild imagination in an Old West game, just keep it within certain limits. Using technology that is 1970s, maybe later, and calling it Old West crosses a bold line for me.

So, even though you may not appreciate – or even agree – with my argument, I stand my by argument that a historical page should be reserved for historical topics. TMP has lots and lots of pages for non-historical topics.

Hope I didn't send you over some hazardous edge. Just looking for input from the core users of this board on the matter.

Oh, and OneHuaiTicket, thanks for adding up the numbers even if it appears to be your one and only visit to the Old West page (if I'm wrong on that, my apologies but that comes from looking at the history of your posts).

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 9:44 p.m. PST

I suppose since compartmentalization seems to be modus operandi around here, I give you a new board: WeirdWest

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 10:14 p.m. PST

Private Snafu,

Why stop there then? Might as well go all the way:

- Real Old West Board
- Hollywood Old West Board
- SF Westerns Board (Old West with more tech, or aliens in the Old West, or even offworld frontier colonies styled after the Old West)
- Weird West Board (for vampires, zombies and any other fantasy/horror characters)

Dan
PS. Early Morning Writer, don't worry, I can take the hint. I won't be polluting your Old West Board any longer.
And I'm not reacting to this thread alone or the other one you alluded to. But this is the one that has definitely made up my mind.

Sobieski31 Jul 2017 11:16 p.m. PST

I agree about the contamination side of things. Ancients are prone to fantasy distortion all the time too.

Personal logo The Beast Rampant Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 4:38 a.m. PST

I have no real problem with Weird West being lumped in. Just pick through it.

At least you're not dealing with posts by people who think "the Renaissance" ran from 1066 to 1812.

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 5:40 a.m. PST

I should think if a person doesn't like the "quality" of posts on a certain board, then it is really their responsibility to start generating posts that they feel are more "on topic". Get a discussion started and then others will join in and support it with like postings.

badger2201 Aug 2017 11:07 a.m. PST

I like it how it is. Not much traffic on here as it is. Cut that down, it becomes a dead board.

This is a lot like Tango, I never understand why people read topics they are not interested in. It is not like a perhaps off topic post replaces an on topic one. And there are not so many posts you are going to miss one in the clutter.

Owen

Brian Smaller01 Aug 2017 1:18 p.m. PST

I never understand why people read topics they are not interested in.

Exactly – why I seem to miss all the "controversial" threads that has the regulars groaning and moaning.

On to the original post – I personally don't mind the fantasy/horror/steampunk stuff that ends up on the Old West board. From some of those posts I have discovered miniatures that I happily incorporated into my regular "Reel West" games.

OneHuaiTicket01 Aug 2017 2:22 p.m. PST

"Oh, and OneHuaiTicket, thanks for adding up the numbers even if it appears to be your one and only visit to the Old West page (if I'm wrong on that, my apologies but that comes from looking at the history of your posts)."

That's because I don't play Old West. BUT, I did back Dracula's America, and I'll be polluting your precious board every chance I get! You can thank me later…

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 5:10 p.m. PST

OneHuaiTicket,

Lol. That's priceless!

I have a feeling that, now that the Prevent Crossposting Pollution Tea Society has reached its tolerance threshold, it is going throw fits over the cross pollination happening now on other boards:

TMP link

Dan

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Early morning writer01 Aug 2017 7:26 p.m. PST

So, just for grins, I did a little analysis. While of the 16 top level boards, only two are distinctly not historical, when you drill down the one lower level (only one) there are ostensibly 167 boards with a historical orientation and 117 that are fantasy and sci-fi oriented. That means a little over 41% of the boards here on TMP are not historical. On the General board alone there are only thee historical by title and all the rest of the 70 boards there are wide open. Heck, even the Napoleonics board, a notoriously gruff lot, has a BP Fantasy board. Not my thing but lots of creative stuff in that world. (Of course, since I'm currently a freeloader, there may be boards I cannot see.)

For StoneMountain, 16 of my most recent 100 posts (which only goes back to April of this year) were in the Old West Board for whatever that is worth, not necessarily discussions started by me.

For badger22, actually, the Old West page, if the stats are current, averages over 30 posts per month which makes it an upper mid-level active board, again for what its worth.

There are many posts here on the Old West board over the years that were not my cup of tea – but at least they were readily identifiable as closely related to the Old West. But some of the recent posts, creative as they may be, just don't get there for me. Especially when there are highly appropriate boards, VSF in particular.

If the majority likes that stuff, that's fine. As I said, I can find my inspiration elsewhere – with what may be, by numbers, the far and away largest Old West collection on the planet, in 15 mm. Slowly working on them but when done, all told, there will be over 5,000 pieces – counting every man, woman, child, casualty figures (lots of those), wagons, stage coaches, and carts (80+), and all the assorted critters (120 bison alone, those are all painted) – and that doesn't count over 100 buildings mostly being scratch built. And, yes, I know, for most the period is about skirmishes and mostly, though not entirely, gunfights – most of which are absurdly unhistorical but at least restricted, for the most part, to Old West "realities". For me it is both the gunslingers but all the other outlaws as well as the Plains Wars and the Apache wars, too. If someone has a bigger collection, I'd love to know about it. Genuinely.

For those who do know Old West history, I will be able to do a quite credible recreation of the gunfight in Tucson after the O.K. Corral incident, 9 locomotives and several dozen passenger and freight cars in my collection specific to the Old West.

Of course, its taken nearly thirty years to collect all that stuff and it will take ages to get it finished. But it sure will be cool when its done!

I'm thankful that TMP provides a way to deal with the astonishingly immature. And there is now at least one new stifle on my very short list, and a very, very permanent stifle it shall be.

I started this discussion because the Old West is a big interest and I wanted to see how those who use this board feel about that recent ahistorical stuff. I can live, readily, without the internet. Lots of opponents locally. All I need is time to indulge and I do when I can but sometimes 'real life' intrudes.

But I'd like to continue using this page as a resource for me and to be a resource for others. I just don't care for things so far from the Old West – but, as always, that's just my opinion. Others are always welcome to their own – though for some I will draw a stark line when it seems a deserved response. So, thanks Editor Bill, for the stifle feature.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 8:27 p.m. PST

Early Morning Writer: "Others are always welcome to their own – though for some I will draw a stark line when it seems a deserved response. So, thanks Editor Bill, for the stifle feature."

Fantastic. So, I guess his problem (about crossposting) is finally solved after all! He probably stifled me. :)

Early Morning Writer: "I can find my inspiration elsewhere – with what may be, by numbers, the far and away largest Old West collection on the planet, in 15 mm. … If someone has a bigger collection, I'd love to know about it. Genuinely."

Hmm. If he has/will have the largest collection ever, why isn't he posting a ton of inspiring threads about it these days, to offset all the stuff he apparently finds so offensive?

I would imagine that there might be others who would love to see see dozens of brand new threads about that collection, genuinely.

Dan

badger2201 Aug 2017 8:59 p.m. PST

For Dan,

Who Stifles us, by this we are known.


Owen

Early morning writer01 Aug 2017 10:40 p.m. PST

CC 1 of 17 posts on 8/1/17 in Old West
PS 1 out of 100 posts
Sobieski 4 out of 100 posts
TBR 1 out of 100 posts
SMM 3 out of 100 posts
b22 5 out of 100 posts
BS 9 out of 100 posts in Old West – for all in most recent posts

24 of 617 posts amongst the 7 of you. Credibility goes to those who frequent the page so Brian gets the prize – though, since I participated in 14 out of 100 maybe I am the most active Old West poster in this thread. Curious. For what its worth.

And, sorry to bruise your ego CC Dan, but you are not the one who got stifled. I hope you get over it. So, after Tango and John the OFM, are you in third place for most prolific poster? No one's ever going to catch Tango – 50 or more posts a day. Tango, dude, get a life, this is only a hobby and just one part of a life, fun as it may be.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP02 Aug 2017 12:01 a.m. PST

No worries. No ego left to bruise. I was only amused.

If our contributions are so minimal to the Board, then why are you getting all worked up as if a lady's virtue was being threatened. Now that new assertion makes this whole thing even more entertaining. :)

Dan

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP02 Aug 2017 6:21 a.m. PST

EMW: "Credibility goes to those who frequent the page … since I participated in 14 out of 100 maybe I am the most active Old West poster in this thread"

Wow, you really have a way with numbers and making them dance..

Well, this entire discussion started off being all about the number of TOPICS, not the number of posts within them, and about how the number of the "Real" Old West topics seemed to be dwindling because of the overwhelming surge in Fictional Old West discussions and crossposting from other Historical and Fictional boards.

But, looking at the last 100 threads/discussions on the Old West Board, is it true that the very last time you started a thread on the board was this one from all the way back in late May?

TMP link

And that thread of yours had absolutely nothing in it about Old West gaming, making terrain or anything about your prodigious collection. Just stuff about travel and sightseeing and I think there's already a Travel Board for that type of non-gaming discussion, isn't there? :)

Dan

advocate02 Aug 2017 11:43 p.m. PST

For the record I have a couple of dozen cowboys, and some unfinished injuns, lying about somewhere. This may be my first post in this board.
I'm in favour of fewer, broader boards, but clearly EMWs collection is so vast maybe it deserves its own sub-board.
Meanwhile CC, keep up the posts please! They often make me think, or smile, or both.

Storyforu03 Aug 2017 1:16 p.m. PST

So many matchsticks.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP03 Aug 2017 8:19 p.m. PST

Matchsticks? Aren't those toothpicks? :)

Dan
PS. It kinda reminds me of that awful bathroom scene in the film Dreamcatcher.

badger2204 Aug 2017 9:28 a.m. PST

Pre-teen matchsticks. Wait till they grow up.

Owen (who was not really grown up himself)

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP17 Aug 2017 7:11 a.m. PST

Advocate: "Meanwhile CC, keep up the posts please! They often make me think, or smile, or both."

And occasionally scratch your head too, right? :)

Dan

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