"Fire and Fury v2" Topic

Hey guys, I'm interested in Fire and Fury 2nd edition and was wondering how these play? I have longstreet, but am basing my forces for Fire and fury and was wondering what people thought of 2nd edition? Thanks.

Hey guys, I'm interested in Fire and Fury 2nd edition and was wondering how these play? I have longstreet, but am basing my forces for Fire and fury and was wondering what people thought of 2nd edition? Thanks.

Hey guys, I'm interested in Fire and Fury 2nd edition and was wondering how these play? I have longstreet, but am basing my forces for Fire and fury and was wondering what people thought of 2nd edition? Thanks.

Hi,

The new 2nd edition of the brigade level F&F rules is a welcome update and expansion of the classic rules. It expands on the options available to grade troop types and weapon types, and generally updates certain areas of play (such as the fire tables) with the experience of Regimental F&F in mind, making for a more streamlined but also more nuanced game. One thing that doesn't get mentioned very much is that it also includes a very nice army generator for pick-up games.

I'm assuming that you are familiar with the main "Fire & Fury" mechanic of the Maneuver Table? This combines morale and command effects into one table, which indicates the status and ability of each brigade as you move them. This has also been updated, and is also still the core of the game.

If you want to move up to a brigade level set to play larger battles than Longstreet allows, then the new brigade level F&F is what you want to look at – if, however, you want to play the same regimental level actions with another rule set, then there is a Regimental version of F&F. You will find that F&F offers a very different play experience and perspective on the ACW than Longstreet.

Cheers,

Christopher

This is certainly one of the few cases in the hobby where the revised edition is very well done and the designer didn't go off the rails with new ideas, changes, etc. The diagrams, charts, etc., are very well done and I'm hoping that some new scenarios with the new unit labels come out some time soon.

We played our first game last Thursday. Mind you it was Hooker's attack at Antietam, which was bloody. As the board was small we used the 15mm measurements for 28mm.
The game itself has changed, it's more bloody. We were removing stands on a regular basis. The firing tables are more deadly. Pretty much the same maneuver but better descriptions.
Adding various musket types is interesting but all the old scenarios do not have this. If you want to build your own scenario finding what kind of musket each brigade carried is difficult, thus we defaulted to Rifled Muskets for everyone. Overall a better game in my opinion.

My major beef with the 1st edition was musketry was ineffective so everyone defaulted to charging. The 2nd edition seems to have remedied that.
JMHO

Yes, one of the effects of the new fire chart, with its graded effects depending on troop quality, is that you really need those Veteran units to close a charge.

As for scenarios, there are updated and expanded versions of the old East/West scenario books already well underway, and possibly a third?

Yeah, a buddy of mine used to call it Fire with No fury!

Ok, Chris you've sucked me in…..
When will they scenario books be ready?

You've convinced me. I just ordered 2nd edition. :)

I'm not sure about the dates of the scenario books (I'll try and check) … but I do know that the original two East/West books were already being worked on during the final playtest process (end of 2016), and originally a 3rd scenario book by another author (a well known ACW hobbyist) was supposed to be available early this year … but then the publication of the rules got pushed back, so I'm not sure how that affected things.

The first thing I tell new players is that the game really revolves around pushing the enemy to the "tipping point" when their losses and morale start to impose telling penalties on the Maneuver Check rolls, and then everyone just holds their breath with each activation.

Some of the really good things ported over from Regimental F&F were a package of victory conditions that also affect the Maneuver Check: Heavy Casualties (% of total stands lost, variable depending on quality etc.), Greater Losses, and Key Positions. If all is going according to plan, pushing a side to Heavy Casualties usually means that they have also suffered Greater Losses than you, and that you have held or captured Key Positions, all of which can result in a cascade of bad modifiers … but if both sides are at Heavy Casualties and trading Greater Losses status and Key Positions, it can go back and forth quite dramatically. A lot has been cleaned up and spruced up in the rules, but these are small, often overlooked, but important additions.

Cheers,

Christopher

I wrote the scenarios for the original Fire & Fury Rules back in 1999. I have spent the last year and a half working through the re-design of the scenarios to bring them up to date with the newly released rules. We have completed all but two of the original 8 scenarios. One of them may not make the cut. I anticipate another few months as the delay in the rules did indeed delay getting the scenarios completed. Progress was slow as you can imagine as it requires both Rich and I to get the maps and new weapon types sorted out. The latter is the big time bandit as it requires a deeper dive into the OBs and in the end, some educated guess work on some of the Confederate weaponry.

There is much more to come on this and I am pleased that some of these scenarios, which I have run many times at conventions, will see daylight soon.

What have we completed?

Courage and Futility: Fredericksburg
Blue Grass, Red Blood: Perryville
A Carnival of Death: Franklin

Two Cedar Creek scenarios:
Dawn at Cedar Creek; Confederate Tidal Wave
Little Phil's Ride; Union Counter-Attack

Still to work out:
Grand Battle for Kentucky (What If)
Death of an Army? Two Nashville Scenarios (One may be scratched)December 15 and 16, 1864

Minor Tweaking on Map: The Spring Hill Affair: Hood's Grand Opportunity Lost

Once Spring Hill is completed, the original book linked Spring Hill, Franklin and Nashville will be linked into a mini-campaign. So, Hood's 1864 Campaign was to be part of the book. We need to retro-fit this idea and have not decided whether this will be a part of the new book.

I hope this helps.

Bill Moreno
crackerlineminis.com

Bill, I had no idea that you were so involved in forming those original scenarios. Great work! And thanks for many hours of pleasant gaming and camaraderie around the table. Good to see that you are involved in the next round of scenarios as well. I'm sure those will be great products built on a wonderful gaming system.

Great news. Just to be sure …

The original Eastern scenario book had:
1st Bull Run (but this is in the rules now)
Seven Pines
Gaines's Mill
Frayser's Farm
Cedar Mountain
2nd Bull Run
Antietam

The biggest change with the new rules for the Eastern theater battles is that the original rules had all three days of Gettysburg, while the new rules only have the first day … so will the new scenario books have the Second and Third Day scenarios with linking guidelines?

The new rules also have another Eastern scenario, Reams Station.

The original Western scenario book had:
Shiloh
Corinth
Stones River (Murfreesboro)
Champion Hill
Chickamauga
Atlanta

The scenarios you mention as finished so far are mostly Western theater battles. So … is the plan to publish a new Eastern/Western pair of books again? Will the scenarios above be included, along with some extras that you mentioned above? Or, will there be only one scenario books with a mix of theaters? Or … ?

I don't mean to be a pest! :)

I just want to figure out which battles I should start doing research on for my own scenarios, if you guys won't do the hard work for me. ;)

Cheers,

Christopher

This is exciting news about the scenario books. I am curious as well about Gettysburg.

To be clear, there will be an Eastern and Western scenario book. I will post up a bit more detail tomorrow. Have to take the my stepdaughter out to dinner for her birthday in a few minutes.

I have purchased the second edition rules as well. Eagerly awaiting their arrival. I play tested the original in many versions at many conventions and loved them. I still have my first QRS from a Cold Wars Antietam playtest. Rich did and team did an amazing job.

The next Fire and Fury publication will be a redo of the Great Western Battles Scenario Book first published back in 1992. If sales go well, it will be followed by a new Eastern Battles book. Both books will be in paperback, full color, and similar in format to the two scenario books for Regimental Fire and Fury. They will have either 80 pages or expanded to 96 pages. All the old scenarios from the original scenario books will be reworked to be compatible with the rule changes in the second edition rulebook, and several new scenarios offered. In addition to the full-battle scenario, some battles will include one or two short scenarios covering smaller portions of the battlefield or a different phase of the battle, for players with less time and space to fight the entire battle. Other battles will offer optional forces and map extensions to fight bigger "what if" scenarios.
Thorough research, design, and playtesting for each scenario will take time, so this project will most likely take another year to complete. This time around, the author, Rich Hasneauer, has enlisted help from three experienced scenario designers, myself, Lowell Hamilton, and Troy Turner who have contributed new scenarios or re-working scenarios from the original book. Some of the new scenarios will be taken from the unpublished scenario book which I detailed above that was intended for the original rulebook, but put on hold after that book went out of print. Rich also is expanding his network of external playtest groups to provide feedback, find design flaws, and help tweak play balance.
The list of scenarios for the new Western Battles book are subject to change and limited by the total number of pages. In addition to the six battles from the original scenario book, the new book will offer the following scenarios.
The Battle of Shiloh. The full battle has been redesigned and offers two additional smaller scenarios, Hood's 1864 Tennessee Campaign covers the three battles of Spring Hill, Franklin, and the two-day battle of Nashville. Franklin will include an optional terrain board extension and a "what if" scenario with additional reinforcements. Nashville currently requires a very large playing area and has play balance issues that might exclude it from the book.
Battle of Atlanta by Lowell Hamilton. The original full-battle scenario is completely redesigned, and there will be two smaller scenarios offered, covering the separate attacks by Hardee's and Cheatham's Corps.
Battle of Corinth by Troy Turner. Troy designed the Reams Station scenario for the second edition rulebook. His redesigned Corinth will have two scenarios, covering both days of the battle. Troy also has volunteered to redesign the Battle of Murfreesboro from the original scenario book.
The Battle of Perryville, noted above, currently covers the historical battle, but there is also an epic "what If" Grand Battle for Kentucky with a much large map extension and expanded order of battle which will bring in all the rogue elements from Kirby Smith's army and activate all the Yanks usually made prostrate by "acoustic shadow".
Battles of Mansfield and Pleasant Hill from the Bank's 1864 Red River campaign, Both scenarios by Rich.
Battles of Champions Hill from the original Western Battles book. As in the original book, it will be offered as a historical battle and a second "what if" scenario with additional forces on an expanded map.
Battle of Chickamauga from the original Western Battles book. Offered as two scenarios covering both days of the battle, and could potentially be broken down into a couple smaller scenarios covering portions of the battle. This is one my personal favorites and always a good fight.
The future Eastern Battles Scenario Book will likely include all of the original battles, reworked for the second edition and several new ones. Two new battles, Fredericksburg and Cedar Creek are from my original 1999 unpublished scenario book. Rich also intends to include Sickle's salient and intends to run this at Fall In.

Bill, this sounds fantastic! Thanks for you and Rich's hard work on all this.

Sounds great to update and expand the original scenario books. Our local bunker bunch in Illinois played the Western book the most. We seemed to enjoy those scenarios the most. Maybe it was because most folks don't know those scenarios as well. Maybe it was because many Illinois troops fought in those western armies. Shiloh, Stones River, Champion Hill, and Chickamauga all got lots of play from us.

I like the fact that you include options for smaller sceanrios in the larger ones. Great idea.

any news on the completion date for the updated scenario books?

Hi any updates on the scenario books for F&F Brigade 2nd edition? I don't see anything on the F&F website yet. Thanks

Just got a look at the proposed cover art for the western battles scenario book. We are pretty close now.

There were still two photos that were required for the Great Western Battles scenario book to enter final editing stage. Those are now complete. Looks like the final editing can now begin and then it goes off to the printers.