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"Swedish fleet. works in progress" Topic


43 Posts

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1,774 hits since 26 Jul 2017
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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ModelJShip26 Jul 2017 12:40 p.m. PST

Hello everyone,
I post photos of the progress of construction of the Swedish fleet that I am doing for a client. I hope you like it.

Greetings,
Julián

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Markconz26 Jul 2017 2:44 p.m. PST

Very nice what manufacturer are these?

devsdoc26 Jul 2017 3:49 p.m. PST

I did not think the Swedes had 3 deckers!
Be safe
Rory

ModelJShip27 Jul 2017 1:01 a.m. PST

Markconz. Langton miniatures, scale 1/1200

ModelJShip27 Jul 2017 1:07 a.m. PST

Rory, I know but my client wanted 3D. I used Spanish hulls because they look like similar.

Markconz27 Jul 2017 2:41 a.m. PST

Thanks!

devsdoc27 Jul 2017 7:08 a.m. PST

Julian,
Did not think you would do something like that yourself.
Why would one have a ship rate that the Swedes did not have???
Be safe
Rory

ModelJShip27 Jul 2017 9:37 a.m. PST

Rory,
It's the same customer who ordered me the Russian fleet, maybe because it wants to match the size of the two fleets. It is clear that it has no much historical rigor but …

devsdoc27 Jul 2017 12:34 p.m. PST

Julian,
"He who pay's, say's". I must say I would not have done it. I may make mistakes or get things wrong. Also do a little "Tweaking" of colours of my fleets. But would always try to get it historical right. 2 x 3rd rate = 1 x 1st rate. You are braver than me.
Be safe
Rory

StarCruiser27 Jul 2017 5:18 p.m. PST

Yep – whatever the CUSTOMER wants (they're always right, of course).

Very, very nice work, by the way…

BrianW28 Jul 2017 10:34 a.m. PST

Julian,
Are you going to go with the red headrails and trim that the Langton guide mentions? I have some paintings on my computer of Swedish ships, and those seem to support the guide.
BWW

ModelJShip28 Jul 2017 12:47 p.m. PST

Yes, it seems they were red, but I do not like it, painter's license :-)

devsdoc28 Jul 2017 2:28 p.m. PST

Brian,
Langton said "Some of the Swedish 74 gun ships bulwarks were red" So as said before I have painted ALL my Swedish ships with red bulwarks. O.K. not historical right, but not 100% wrong. But if you give the Swedes a 1st rate you can paint bulwarks blue!!!!!
Julian,
You are becoming the man to go to for sailing ship history. One day some one WILL paint Swedes with BLUE BULWARKS (Spanish colours) and add a 1st RATE TO A SWEDISH FLEET because YOU have done so! Thinking it must be the right colour and thing to do, as you did so! You do have a responsibility. Being so good at what you do does have a price.
Please think about that and what you do!
Be Safe
Rory

ModelJShip30 Jul 2017 8:00 a.m. PST

Rory, I do not think I'm a cause for confusion. Do not give me more importance and transcendence than I may actually have.

devsdoc31 Jul 2017 3:25 a.m. PST

Do not under estimate yourself Julian. It will happen. I've seen it before, and will see it again. Look at old painting guides! I see old wrong ideas being re-done again and again.
Be safe
Rory

ModelJShip31 Jul 2017 5:24 a.m. PST

Updating the work

Today I have finished of fixing the sails and I have started with the rigging.

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ModelJShip07 Aug 2017 5:10 a.m. PST

Updating works. The rigging finished, now the runnig rigging.

Greetings,
Julián

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ModelJShip11 Aug 2017 6:07 a.m. PST

Updating works. Today I finished the running rigging. Now I have to star with the repainting.

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Have a nice weekend!

StarCruiser11 Aug 2017 7:32 a.m. PST

I'll give that fleet a wide berth!

devsdoc11 Aug 2017 2:55 p.m. PST

StarCruiser,
So would I! A Swedish !st rate in the time of the Napoleonic Wars or the Baltic wars? I think not!
Be safe
Rory

ModelJShip12 Aug 2017 3:15 a.m. PST

Rory, as I told you, this is a request from a client of mine. If he has decided to do that I can not do anything about it. IT IS NOT NECESSARY THAT YOU ARE REMEMBERING IT AT ALL TIME.

Note that it is only a ship of 100 guns, the restof the fleet are within an acceptable range of the swedes ships. But it seems that you are judging the entire fleet by adding a single first rate.

If you do not like what I post, it is as simple as not going in to see it.

devsdoc12 Aug 2017 1:19 p.m. PST

Why not give all the fleets 4 Decker ships too? The Spanish had one so why not the rest?
Sorry! If you do the work knowing it is wrong just to make money, that is your problem not mine! I have turned down work because I know the work asked for was historical wrong. I have standards! If you don't like people saying so! Don't post.
You are so good at what you do, I find it sad.
Be safe
Rory

ModelJShip13 Aug 2017 3:25 a.m. PST

You are confused Rory, I do not mind constructive criticism. But if the person doing the criticism is dedicated to repeating it over and over again where I post … then it makes me think badly about that person.

KniazSuvorov Inactive Member13 Aug 2017 6:47 a.m. PST

Isn't creating "what-if" scenarios the whole basis of historical wargaming?

It's not like we game Trafalgar by dogmatically reenacting what actually happened. History generally gets "tweaked" pretty liberally by "historical" wargamers in order to give the historical losers a chance.

Sweden could have built a 3-decker; they'd had them in times past, and retained the technology to build one. It's not like they're being given an Aegis destroyer or something.

Would I build a Swedish fleet with a 3-decker? No. But I have no problem with someone else doing it.

devsdoc13 Aug 2017 7:33 a.m. PST

Julian,
If I wished to repeatedly criticize you, I would post my criticism on the number of sites that I know you post on. This I have not done. You can think as you wish about me. As I can about your work. Sorry you don't like it. You like the nice things I and others say about your work. You are a professional painter, and if asked I would always point folks in your direction for your services. I would of hoped you would help them to be historical right.
KniazSuvorov,
Yes you are right. I would call "Tweaking" letting the U.S. fleet having a 3rd rate or two. As they had them on the stocks but not finished. At what point would you say is too far? At what point would you say No! to an opponent? For Julian this is not the point as he does not play.

KniazSuvorov Inactive Member16 Aug 2017 12:39 p.m. PST

At what point would you say No! to an opponent?

I once wrote a set of rules for single-ship frigate actions in the Napoleonic period. They went like this:

1. The British player rolls 5d6.
2. If the pips showing total 6 or more, the British player wins.

The games were always fast, and the rules were incredibly easy to master. Even better, the results were agreeably accurate, historically speaking, at least against Continental European opponents. But for some reason people kept complaining that the game was "unfair", and "wasn't any fun".

So to answer your question, I more or less gave up on "historical" age of sail gaming. I now have "blue" and "red" fleets (1/3000 Forged in Battle), and that's all I use. Go ahead and try to tell me that the "blue" fleet never had any 3-deckers!

devsdoc17 Aug 2017 3:40 p.m. PST

KniazSuvorov,
No! I think it was the "Red" fleet that had no 3 decker's :).
I don't think I've played an actual Napoleonic battle for years. I play lots of games with Napoleonic Naval ships. Lots of rules do have National fleet lists. That way I try to play a fleet as the nation would have sailed with. Also try and fight as that Nation would have fought. Do I always get it right? No! But I try! I like the Baltic Wars in this period. I have a Russian and Swedish squadron. I have seen no evidence that the Swedes had or used 3 decker's in this period. O.K. I have not played any actual battles of the time. I do try to get the fleets right. I think sometimes just pushing ships on a table is fun. So then a red and blue fleet is fun. No rights or wrongs. To say "This is a Swedish Napoleonic Fleet/squadron with a 3 decker" is as wrong as a 4 decker British ship. They are showing Swedish flags, not red or blue!
Be safe
Rory

ModelJShip24 Aug 2017 9:23 a.m. PST

Hello,

I wanted to ask about what shade of blue should I use to paint the Swedish flags. I am a bit confused because I have seen other models and the flags appear of a very intense and dark blue, but investigating I have seen that the flags were more a light blue. I have painted the flags as shown in the photo. What is your opinion? Should it obscure them? All opinions are welcomed.

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KniazSuvorov Inactive Member24 Aug 2017 11:56 a.m. PST

I'm no expert on the Swedish navy, but I believe their war ensign has always been 3-tailed rather than rectangular. See link .

Your colors look fine to me, though.

ModelJShip24 Aug 2017 1:11 p.m. PST

I know …. I find it more comfortable to make these type of rectangular flags …

devsdoc24 Aug 2017 2:51 p.m. PST

So Julian,
You make a big thing about the right colour of the flag for the Swedish fleet. But add a 3 decker (Spanish) ship which the Swedes did not have! Paint Blue Bulwarks because you don't like red (See above). It is very hard to cut the 3 swallow tail Swedish flags in this scale. So can understand this bit. I am finding it harder too understand you more and more. Are you a Sci-fi painter or Historical painter?
Be safe
Rory

ModelJShip24 Aug 2017 4:11 p.m. PST

Exactly Rory, this fleet is not the Swedish fleet, it is the fleet of Galaxy Andromeda to the command of the commander Octopus. The colors of this fleet are historical according to the galactic fleet.
If someone tries to see that it is a Swedish fleet, do not be fooled, it is the interstellar fleet of the commander octopus.

devsdoc24 Aug 2017 4:38 p.m. PST

Now I understand,
Sci-fi painter! So why post here
Be safe
Rory

ModelJShip25 Aug 2017 1:20 a.m. PST

because I want to?
The way you act seems ridiculous to me. That is typical of a 10 year old. And it is not the fact of making a criticism in itself, It's because you are criticizing post-post my work. If you dislike it, you just have to block me.

Improve your character, you will go better in life.

devsdoc25 Aug 2017 5:02 p.m. PST

Hi Julian,
You mis-understand me. You post on most wargaming/modeling sites to show your great ships. We are showing our work to show-off and too help fellow hobbies. I can understand that some cannot or wish not to do there own models. So to have people like you to do the work for them is so helpful. Your work is outstanding and I have said this many times. You must understand that you also have responsibilities to your costumers, and fellow gamer's. To do work which is historical wrong and you known it to be so is a put down to yourself.
We all make mistakes and have ships which are not right. But we all try to get it right. People on this site try to help.
This I tried to do for you too. To openly say it is O.K. to do it wrong from a person of your very high standards undermines all the work we all try to do.
I ask myself "Do you care? or is it only for the money?"
I hope it is that you care and wish to get it as best as you can. This 10 year old only wishes to improve your reputation. Too help you
I do wish you all the best
Be safe
Rory

ModelJShip28 Aug 2017 8:50 a.m. PST

Completed work!

I hope you like it. (Except for Rory) ;-)

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More photos here:

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devsdoc29 Aug 2017 11:01 a.m. PST

:)

hindsTMP Supporting Member of TMP29 Aug 2017 6:08 p.m. PST

Beautiful work Julian / ModelJShip!!

Not just the nice ship models, but the way you mass produced them, and the way you allowed them to be both in a mini-diorama and to be used individually as gaming pieces.

MH

ModelJShip30 Aug 2017 6:03 a.m. PST

Thank you MH!

KniazSuvorov Inactive Member30 Aug 2017 1:56 p.m. PST

They look great, Julián!

The trick to making small swallowtail/three-tail flags is to cut out the triangles from a rectangular flag after the glue is dry. Just make sure to use the sharpest blade possible to get a clean cut, and to pre-notch the points of the tails so that they cut rather than ripping.

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2017 5:05 p.m. PST

Julian,

You do GREAT work. Do not listen to Rory, that person is beyond reaching out to. Keep up the great work.

ModelJShip31 Aug 2017 2:14 a.m. PST

KniazSuvorov:
Thanks for the advice I will take into account for future projects

18th Century Guy:
Thank you, I glad you like my work.

devsdoc01 Sep 2017 4:12 p.m. PST

18th Century Guy,
Sorry you feel that way! Julian has always painted great looking ships. This I have always said.
It is that the fleet is so wrong! One can say what one will, but it is wrong!
Be safe
Rory

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