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670 hits since 22 Jul 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Garde de Paris22 Jul 2017 4:55 a.m. PST

One of my "units in process" is the 23rd Foot, Royal Welch (?)Fuzileers (?).(Did I get "Welch" and "Fuzileers" right?)

I am using Victrix 28mm plastics, and realize that Fuzileer officers wore short-tailed coats. I plan to use 2 sergeants for these officers.

Question 1: I need to scrape away the bullet pouches, and some belting, but should the sash be on the other side? – major work for me!

Question 2: Also, could they have worn the fore and aft bicorn, or would it be the basic infantry shako?

As a personal quirk, I like to paint the officer breeches of my non-buff-faced units in a medium to dark blue for the officer carrying the King's colour. These will be in the Albuera era in the Peninsula, with overalls, so I might use an off-white.

Question 3: Has anyone ever seen illustrations of the Fuzileer brigade at Albuera – correct to that battle?

GdeP

Personal logo Buckeye AKA Darryl Supporting Member of TMP22 Jul 2017 4:55 a.m. PST

Just a small poll about your preference to do sci fi projects with one range of figures, or do you mix and match:

link

MajorB22 Jul 2017 6:17 a.m. PST

(Did I get "Welch" and "Fuzileers" right?)

Welch yes
Fuzileers no, it's "Fusiliers"
rwfmuseum.org.uk

Personal logo Artilleryman Supporting Member of TMP22 Jul 2017 6:58 a.m. PST

What is the source for the short-tailed coat? All my references show long-tailed coats for infantry officers before 1812 unless they were light infantry.

keithbarker22 Jul 2017 7:01 a.m. PST

Did I get "Welch" and "Fuzileers" right?

Yes you did, both are correct, for the Napoleonic time period. Although they are archaic and wouldn't normally be used today.

As far as I understand the naming of the regiment…

1689 23rd Regiment of Foot
1702 The Welch Regiment of Fusiliers
1723 The Royal Regiment of Welch Fuzileers
1881 The Royal Welsh Fusiliers
1921 The Royal Welch Fusiliers
2006 The Royal Welsh

Generally speaking you would put the officers in bicorn up to 1812 and after that in shako. I haven't seen the Victrix 28mm plastics so I don't know what sort of shako they are wearing. If its the belgic, then the officers would have it too, otherwise they would have bicorn.

//Keith

keithbarker22 Jul 2017 7:08 a.m. PST

These two prints show what I mean about Officer's headgear…

picture

picture

Both are said to be of the 23rd, but I don't know the sources.

4D Jones22 Jul 2017 8:14 a.m. PST

Spot on, Keith.

Garde de Paris22 Jul 2017 9:29 a.m. PST

So this illustration of the officer with bicorn has long-tailed coats. I painted two of them already – I thought it a mistake – in this uniform.

The Victrix officers come with rolled-top, or "jockey" boots, and I usually carve them down to this type – more appropriate for an officer on foot.

Love the detail, and tradition!

GdeP

IronDuke596 Supporting Member of TMP22 Jul 2017 9:36 a.m. PST

Good information here for you Garde de Paris.

However, I would not use the sergeants as ensigns; the Sgt's sword is on the opposite side (his right side) other wise the water bottle and havesack would make it very difficult to draw the sword.

As all officers and men wore wings, your colour bearers should be officers with wings. So your options are to attach the flank company epaulettes plus carving before hand. Or do what I did, which is to buy two light infantry enigns.

BTW British fusilier regiments did not have ensigns as the lowest ranked officer was a second-lieutenant.

Good luck.

Garde de Paris22 Jul 2017 9:37 a.m. PST

Is there any way to determine from this picture that the private of the 7th is from the 2nd Battalion? I understand that all companies of fusiliers wore the white hackle, but still do my lights with green.

As an aside, back in the 60's I painted a bunch of 30mm Charles Sradden conversions as the 7th Foot, Royal Fuzileers (or Fusiliers), but with bearskins, and white breeches in black gaiters up to below the knee. I then added a light company in the Peninsular War stovepipe, firing, white breeches, green hackle. I did 35 of them. I need to do one more colour officer, 1 more drummer, 1 more light company man, and 2 with bearskins to make my now- favored 40-figure battalion.

I understand the Fusiliers never wore the bearskin on campaign, so I use them as on parade at home, but fine for battle!

There has been a lot of reporting here that the fusiliers did not use green hackles for the light company that all had wings, and white hackles.

GdeP

MajorB22 Jul 2017 9:55 a.m. PST

"By Army Order No 56 of February 1920, a long standing dispute between the War Office and both former regiments (Royal Welch Fusiliers and Welch Regiment) was finally resolved when these regiments were allowed to change the method of spelling their titles to the 'Old English' version 'Welch' which had been used unofficially from a long time. A cap badge with the spelling 'Welsh' is almost certain to date from the First World War."
link

Personal logo Artilleryman Supporting Member of TMP22 Jul 2017 11:50 a.m. PST

Iron Duke, British infantry sergeants who carried pikes wore their swords on the same side as everyone else, the left. They therefore carried the haversack and waterbottle on the right hip which would be free as they had no musket therefore no ammo pouch. There was a thread about this recently.

TMP link

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP23 Jul 2017 2:28 p.m. PST

Proves my last comment, on that link, but sooner than expected.

Within days the info is not immediately to hand. Weird, when IT is meant to be so clever at simple data trawling….

We are not asking for interpretation, just simple facts. By 2017, I would have thought that………but I guess not.

I had been baffled by the haversack/waterbottle side (esp for Light Infantry NCOs)..until it was explained as you did above.

dibble23 Jul 2017 7:21 p.m. PST

Yes! All companies wore white hackles and had elite company wings. A private was and is called 'fuzileer'(Fusilier)

The above pictures of the 7th Royal Fusilier and 23rd officer are from: BLOODY ALBUERA: THE 1811 CAMPAIGN IN THE PENINSULAR
By Ian Fletcher and illustrated by Gerry Embleton

The other illustration is by Brian Fosden.

There was a Grenadier and a (Light) company but to reiterate, the light company wore white hackles along with everyone else. Officers had either a small grenade (grenadier company), garter (centre companies) or bugle ([light] company) badge on their epaulettes which would not be discernable in your scale.

Though the long tailed coat was meant to be replaced with the short tailed, the long tailed coat was still worn by many grenadier and battalion company officers till almost the end of the war in the Peninsula and southern France.

At Waterloo, staff officers were still wearing long tailed coats.

TMP link

TMP link

As a slight aside.

Fosden did these fine illustrations too.

link


Paul :)

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