"Is Your Terrain Realistic?" Topic

Do you consider your wargaming terrain to be realistic?

No, At best you can make it look like a nice train layout. You can never make it realistic because scale is a very harsh Mistress.

No. Compression is necessary for practical play and improvisation is necessary for fun.

Of course I'm mostly playing 28mm fantasy and sci-fi, so all bets are off anyway but I dont' even make attempts at "realism" within the boundaries of those genres.

No

Nope, horizontal scale, ground scale, vertical scale, time scale and figure scale are all different 90% of the time.

No

As long as it looks nice we are good to go. Realism gets stretched in games. Although sometimes we use real dirt, that is true realistic terrain.

No. Terrain that is excessively realistic obstructs movement too much. If you want to build dioramas, fine; but if you want to wargame then put your priorities where they belong.

You be the judge.

Private Snafu, very nice looking terrain but astonishingly unrealistic. It is way, way too clean.

I seek as much "realism" as practical but compromise for playability, why my hills are "wedding cake" for the most part so figures will stand on them just fine (if it isn't too steep a cliff which it can be).

I want to pour flock and clump foliage all over the place but it makes such a mess. Perhaps if I used old carpet scraps and dirty cardboard that would make it less astonishingly unrealistic.

I think its a good representation but not "realistic".

Whatever that means…

yes always!

I like many gamers sacrifice realism for portability and durability. I need to get my game to the club intact, set up in a rush and have it survive the fumbling fingers and elbows of the players!

My terrain perfectly recreates a Grim, Dark Future In Which There Is Only War!

Depends. It's not squares or hexes. But it does have to be sturdy, portable and capable of being reconfigured. Also boundaries have to be clear. THIS is the woodline. HERE is where the hill starts or the trees get thicker.

What it actually reminds me of is the acetate "mobility overlays" I used to do over maps in an S-2 shop, where we'd mark certain contour lines and indicate woods and BUA's which would be a problem for tanks.

The problem IMO is not only scale and practicability, it is also colour. Nature is to diluted and dirty.

I like my miniatures bright and "popping-out". I need a bright terrain, so that can happen.

The last time my terrain was realistic was when we played with toy soldiers in the yard.

PrivateSnafu,

Your terrain board is fantastic. It is also realistic to me. A calm and serene Normandy village which will soon be marred by fighting and become pock-marked with shell holes and debris and charred out buildings.

Love the hedges too.

I do. It's a game. It's realistic for purposes of the game.

Yes within the constraints of the gaming environment.

No, but it is very good for the games I want to play.

By definition the ground to figure scale makes for distortion. However we try and get somewhere near. One of the key features to us is getting the proportion of roads and linear features representive of the area you are modeling. Using real maps of the sort of terrain we like to simulate usually indicates far more roads and hedges than on many wargames tables. With regard to villgaes we try and get the right base area and the pattern of the roads reasonably correct. However the houses are too big and they have no gardens in our reperesentation. However this does create something of the restricted vision arcs you expsct in many urban areas.

As others have stated it's not really possible to be truly "realistic" with terrain. We do try to make it look as reasonably life like as we can.

Don't know why the image won't display above, obviously I fail at this. Here's a link if you want to see the pic.

link

I disagree about Privatesnafu's terrain not looking realistic. Look at any aerial footage of a town, looks much cleaner from that distance than it would close up. There are many details from that height that you simply wouldn't see.

Is it diorama realistic? Of course not, but it's not meant to be. But it's better than most tables I see online.

Since I live in the flat and open plains of Oklahoma, with very few terrain features to speak of, I would have to conclude that my gaming terrain reflects my reality.

@Lascaris

That's a very nice board. Here it is.

@UshCha

I do model gardens. They are not visible in the picture. The Cafe has one in the works as well.

I'll admit I make my roads oversized in width. That's mainly because I figure there needs to be enough room for someones fist to fit in there to grab models without knocking stuff all over.

Realism is limited by available time and funds.

I run science fiction games, so that tends to make just about anything I put on the table realistic.

On the other hand, I'm running games set in the human-centered Traveller universe, so most ground combat takes place on worlds that are easy to inhabit, that is, worlds similar to Earth in important respects -- oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere, sufficient water, gravity similar to Earth's, yellow sun.

Anyway, here's a picture of the start of a battle on Hofud/Sword Worlds, an agricultural world. You be the judge.

link

@PrivateSnafu thanks for that! Can you post what the formatting is to post the picture? I went to the FAQ page and followed the instructions but failed miserably. Would be nice to know for future reference.

No but you can create very convincing terrain to put you in the element and moment……

Also good terrain in my mind will mimic the rolls and hidden areas on a real battlefield that will create tactical responses to potential real life moments in a battle.

Unless we can eliminate the helicopter view we have, we will never totally get there, but I think very well terrain will help transport you and force you to make decisions based on that terrain.

PrivateSnafu, you don't need to use messy scatter terrain to enhance the look of your terrain, just learn (if you don't know how already) the techniques for weathering, houses and landscaping – rather nicely on display in the photo you kindly posted for Lascaris. No need to do it if you like your scenery as is but if you wish to heighten the realism then weathering is your path forward. Actually, you have a bit of it in your backyards photo – that closest green roof and the nice rendition of the yard as a bit overgrown and weedy. Ultimately, its what makes us happy that matters.

I think both sets of terrain displayed here are better than most. Of course if you have to set up away from home there is only so much time you want to spend setting up the table which is a major constraint.

I've actually modeled terrain to scale from contour maps and pictures of the battle site. The resulting table wasn't far from many table top games I've played, except that the hill structure was stretched across much longer spaces, rather than the blobby "hills" we tend to see.

The key is that the rules I used had 1) a coherent ground scale, and 2) the rules defined broken ground and built up areas as areas, and did not use specific hedges/ditches etc and specific buildings.

So the buildings were too big to scale in my games, but their footprint represented the right area.

The result is then that the game played realistically with respect to terrain. And as we were Kriegsspielling, more realistically than usual with respect to command and control too, which is why I went to the bother of getting correct terrain.

If people in your games can't fire a MG the width of a town, then the fact that your buildings are too tall is not the problem.

@Early Morning Writer

Thank. It's a work in progress but done enough to be played on. All the fields will be getting the same treatment as the overgrown yard, eventually. I got my hands on some propaganda posters that will be making their way onto the buildings at some point.

Im slowly working through enhancing everything. The churchyard was fun to make.

The bright green mouse pad mat does not help. That will be remedied in the future. The GW one I have is nicer but I just set everything up on this one for some reason unknown.

Realistic is not really a realistic expectation for a wargame table IMO but I like to make the table an attractive toy solider experience

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PrivateSnafu,
Is your ground cloth home made or commercially available?

TRU

The one shown in the second photo you posted…

TRU

The issue for me is always realism vs. play-ability vs. time. I agree that weathering/shading/highlighting all the elements of your terrain is a must. And I use scatter elements like crates, barrels, bushes, etc. all the time. But I have switched from terrain boards and homemade gaming mats to commercially available terrain mats. True, all the texture is two-dimensional, but the flat surface makes it easier to place figures and eliminates having them tilted at odd angles. And from the players' perspective they look good. Plus, at my age, I am leaning toward purchasing pre-finished terrain wherever possible (Crescent Root Studio is a particular favorite), time and space being at a premium! As I do games at conventions, portability is also a factor.

It's all about compromise, and everyone should do what works for them, and I admire all the photos on this page which are great examples of a range of approaches to the issue. All the comments are great and constructive as well. For us oldsters, the hobby has come a long way from masking tape roads on a bed sheet!

Here's an example of a Pulp Alley lost world scenario I did at Drums at the Rapids wargaming convention. Is it realistic?

PDF link

@oabee51

Love how the figure bases blend in. That's probably the most perfectly hidden way I have ever seen including those who use clear plastic.

@TRUgamer

That's the GW or Citadel one that I picked up probably 5 years ago at Hobby Town for $40. USD Sadly I don't think they are available anymore. It's much nicer than the mouse pad mat I got from Hidden Forest gaming.

I think this is the one. I threw the box away.

@Lascaris

Here is the thread where I explain how to embed a photo into a forum post.

TMP link

Absolutely!

… perfect replica of where I grew up …

… and where I live now.

The problem with most terrain is we use flat tables and then chuck down some hills but in a lot of places (I'm sure there are exceptions) the land is far more undulating with dips as well as raises plus our hills are usually far to small. Using a flat table or limited size its very hard model true dips and high ground as would be found in real life.

@PrivateSnafu

Glad you like the bases. The very thin ones, which look the best, come from the Pulp Alley website:

link

The fatter ones, which I'm gradually replacing with the thinner Pulp Alley ones [Mila's Ultra-Inviso Bases], are made by Litko.

They take a little extra work, but for skirmish games especially they work very well indeed, blending in with all types of terrain.

War Panda sets up loveley games – the town pic second from bottom is a joy. I know he uses flocks and coloured sands but, sadly, his blog is light on details so not easy to replicate.

So if you venture back this way WP, please do share some tips if you can

Thanks

Marc

"@TRUgamer

That's the GW or Citadel one that I picked up probably 5 years ago at Hobby Town for $40. USD USD Sadly I don't think they are available anymore. It's much nicer than the mouse pad mat I got from Hidden Forest gaming.

I think this is the one. I threw the box away."

I was referring to the first groundcloth shown in your post, the one with the irregular printed pattern. Or perhaps its hand painted?

The time of your post dated 21 Jul 2017 10:55 a.m. PST.

TRU

This one.

link

Mine was 1/2" short of 72".

Great… thank you.

There are some very nice examples of gaming tables; especially Private Snafu, Lacaris and WarPanda. (WarPanda: Is that a pig being hurtled through the air in the picture two up from the picture with the little girl in the background?)

My question is what is consider realistic? If by realistic is it a perfect replica of an object found in real life, then I would say probably not. If you are saying it is a scale representation that appears realistic and matches to scale then I would say probably. If I am doing 1 to 1 scale skirmish games then a building that is 18 inches by 9 inches on the table, with two doors and six windows, is a realistic representation (but perhaps not exact) of a building that is 84 feet by 42 feet with two doors and six windows in real life.

So are you extremely exact and precise in your definition of realistic or are your more 'realistic' in your expectations?

Private Matter gets at a recurring problem on the boards. People use the word "realistic" without defining what they meant.

Combat in Iraq is not a realistic representation of combat in Iraq depending on where you were when and what you were doing (amoung other things). In a previous life, sussing out what was relevant to transfer (a "lesson learned") from one set of information to a new context (and what was not) was a key aspect of my job.

When you talk about "realism" you need at least a "referent" (your baseline for "real") and a "purpose" (real for what reason or use) which lead you to "criteria" for judging realism.

Is grass that models the right height, shape, and density of the real thing in scale that doesn't look right relative to your viewing perspective "realistic"? Well, again, it depends on what is important.