"British Marines and Russia 1812" Topic

G'Day Gents

In a hypothetical situation…just for fun…just for fun…

What size element do you think I could realistically (non historically of course) have British Marines on the wargame table…

Meaning they were sent to operate with the Russians in 1812…if they were brought by ship(s)?

Does anyone else have any little oddities they throw on a wargame table that is not historical?

In such cases…I have a plastic 1/72nd scale Austrian battery that always makes it in such games…and I use 25mm figures ;-)

Best Regards
Art

It is not at all hypothetical.

On 9/21 August a raiding party consisting of HMS Aboukir (a 3rd rate of 74 guns), several frigates and transports departed Riga under the command of Admiral Sir Thomas Byam Martin.

On 18/31 August they landed a rading party under the command of colonel and flank-adjudant Petr Ivanovich Balabin, who had been schooled in England and had particiapted in the naval operations in the Mediterrean in 1794-1800.
bio : link

The landing force was :
--- 2nd "replacement" battalion of the 30th Jäger regiment : major Aleksandr Andreyevich Avenarius (12/400 – the 4th, 5th and 6th jäger companies of the regiment, armed with Russian obr. 1808 muskets)
--- an artillery platoon of 2x unicorns (3-pound or 1/4-pud)
--- detachment of British Marines : I would suppose a company-strength landing party of up to 100 men

The Russians reported a good success in damaging French coasters, barges and supplies in the port. Admiral Martin bombarded the place for 2 days and then set sail for Riga, returning on 4/16 September.

I could probably find another example of this sort of thing, as I remember reading of at least two examples in Russian sources. I bet you would find even more in a detailed English history of Baltic operations.

As a possible scenario, in the C S Forester novel 'The Commodore', Hornblower ends up helping the Russians defend Riga in 1812. Raids and reinforcing the garrison are possibilities there. Also an excellent read.

G'Day Gents

Thank you for the information…and I must say that I was impressed with Google Translate when I translated the link ;-)

Best Regards
Art

It would also be hypothetically possible to use battalions of Royal Marines. During the War of 1812 (in America, that is) the British deployed three different marine battalions for land service, though never all in the same place, plus detachments of Royal Marine Artillery. These were not just ad hoc groupings of ship's detachments, but regularly organized units. The strength of such battalions was on the order of 700 to 800 rank and file.

Worked the other way around too…

In 1810-1811 the Navy and Marines were skirmishing against the Russian Navy.

Further to attila's input, prior to fighting in N America, the Royal Marines had formed two battalions for service in Iberia, the 1st (formed in 1810 at Plymouth from shore-based companies) providing part of the Lisbon garrison until joined by the 2nd (formed in 1812 from shore-based companies at Chatham and Portsmouth). Both then took part in amphibious operations under Admiral Popham around Santander, before being posted to America. A 3rd battalion was formed in 1814 from companies which had accompanied Prince William of Orange back to his homeland; this unit operated along the coastline of the southern States, under Admiral Cochrane, alongside a "colonial" marine battalion of blacks, raised in the Caribbean, and sundry foreign units. The 1st and 2nd battalions finished the war in Canada, having been sent there after the British defeat on the Great Lakes; the 2nd battalion was absorbed into the 1st and its staff sent south to reinforce the 3rd battalion (which was renumbered 2nd).

One small correction to Supercilius' post. The colonial marine battalion was raised in the Chesapeake Bay area from escaped slaves, and went to the Caribbean after the British withdrew from the Chesapeake.

At a smaller scale, each ship of the Royal Navy carried a fixed number of Royal Marines according to her rate. In 1810, this was 170 on a First Rate but a much more manageable number for smaller ships – I'm currently working on the 48 men for a Fifth Rate which is a tidy force for Sharp Practice and can be deployed almost anywhere.

There is a table showing each detachment at the end of this article: PDF link

To anyone interested in His Majesty's Corps of Colonial Marines I'd recommend The Internal Enemy: Slavery and War in Virginia, 1772-1832 by Alan Taylor. Some very interesting scenario ideas for small raiding actions around the Chesapeake.