"Okay, guidance for a very basic Roman collection...?" Topic

Hi all,

Okay, I thought I would start a little force for my son, for us to paint together…

He's really taken to Rome Total War on the iPad… these felllows:

I wanted to put a little force together using Warlords plastics, supplemented by a few personalities… maybe three box sets, one or two characters, one or two war engines.

Could anyone suggest what to purchase? I am so unfamiliar with the era that a bit of guidance to get on the right track would be fantastic. Thanks much from a total ancients noob!:)

How old is he? I ask because there is some 54mm-ish stuff out there that would be easier for a kid to paint.

Eh, he is five, but he has nailed 28mm on Napoleonics, so I have faith:)

Thinking of units based in groups of six, two ranks of three… maybe front rank with swords, back with spears, two dice slots on the back corners for a future rule set… I think there are warlord sets that do that with the above guys pictures? something roughly like this would be ideal:

But with a few cool characters and units to highlight the regular, run of the mill line units.

The old school way was units of 24 mounted 4 to a stand. Each stand represented a century and the 6 stands together represented a cohort. Each man in the unit represents 20 men.. a cohort had 480 men in real life.

Ashram,

My son started a bit later (early teens), but his interests are exactly the same – he even started off with Total War! We started out with Warlord plastics for some legionaries, cavalry, and of course a couple of ballistae! Warlord has (or had, at least) some good combo sets of that sort. They are easy to assemble, but the decals can be a chore – you might want to make at least the first ones a team project. They have some variety in the basic EIR figures, including veterans and praetorians. To be honest, their auxilia are nice figures but posed a bit awkwardly.

As he got more into the period, he has come to prefer Victrix plastics when they have the right sets (the nice thing about Romans is that you can always add an interesting auxiliary unit or two).

However, his overall favorite now (and mine too) are the metal figures by Aventine – simply amazing sculpts, and of course no assembly, but a bit pricier. They have great leader sets and elite unit choices if you want to sprinkle them in.

For foes – Warlord has an amazing Germanic barbarian horde deal – you'll probably only need one for quite a while.

For basing, my thoughts were to keep it as flexible as possible, so I went for individual wooden bases and 6x3 wooden sabots from Warbases. We've been able to do bigger element based combats and also more skirmish style village raids, etc.

Summary: nowadays it's easy to pick and choose between some neat starter sets that he will really identify with, and add some characters and variety as you go.

Cheers,

Christopher

Hey guys!

Okay… I appreciate the advice. I went with two warlord sets… the legionnaires with scorpion, and the veterans. Sooooo… onto question time!

I'd like to base them on stands with six guys apiece… he already has a individual-figure army, and I'd like to get him into multiple-based-wargaming, if that makes sense… that isn't set in stone, though, and I might do movement trays.

Can I ask a few more questions though?

First, can I mix the actual two sets? Are they basically the same figures, but the veterans look a bit more veteran (i.e. no helmets, beat up, etc?)

Second, does the "front rank sword, back rank pilum or whatever they are called" format work?

Third, I know he wants a specific group from the game, which is referred to as the "First Legionary Cohort." What that means, to this veteran Napoleonic/ACW/AWI gamer is a mystery:) Is that just basically regular guys, just like everyone else, just from a differently-named legion? Or should they have something special?

Also, were there any elites in Roman armies of this type? Like… what if I did like the guys in the photo above (not counting the front right base, which is auxiliaries?) Could I do the back five units as regular, and the one on the front left, with the command, as an elite unit? Does this make any sense? As a kid I am sure that some elite groups would be nice, to have them look different.

Oh, what is an aquilifer? I see it for sale, and he looks cool… but do the boxed sets come with one? Who would he be with? Would it make sense to put him on a stand with the general?

Lastly, I got the figure from Gladiator… the general with dog.

I think those are all my questions for now? But really, I'd SO appreciate you guys helping me out; I know this is the ancient equivalent of asking "Wait, so the Civil War… North versus East?" but that's about my level, and the Roman stuff doesn't seem too easy for newbies!:D

Thanks TMPers!

Well, I'm a classicist and thus had a leg up, but my attempts to steer my own son into horse & musket gaming were also run aground by the mighty Roman juggernaut. ;)

1) Yes, you can mix the two sets, especially if you are doing larger bases with some room to wiggle the figures. Mixing and matching the command figures will also result in a nice look. As you surmised, the "veterans" have the same basic kit, but are a bit beat up, and also have some added armor (greaves on the lower legs, and a "manica" or lower arm guard on the right arm). The set is probably meant to represent the legions that were up-armored by Trajan in the Dacian wars, to counter their heavy two-handed weapons.

2) Yep, the two rank look works, and looks nice. In fact … I think the sets actually force you to arm them with half gladius and half pilum.

3) The legions of this period had ten cohorts, and the first was the most prestigious, was officered by the most senior centurions and presumably filled out with the more veteran legionaries, and was also double the size of the other cohorts. Keep the size in mind when planning your expansions. In Napoleonic terms, they were probably something like converged grenadiers, so your son picked well. ;)

4) There weren't really any "elites" in Napoleonic terms, other than the First Cohort as I mentioned, and they all looked the same (so far as we know, but small differences in shield design for instance seems reasonable). The Praetorians were in theory elite, but they were usually imperial household troops and didn't see a lot of action. For most of the period, a veteran First Cohort could probably chew them up and spit them out.

5) An aquilifer is the great-grand-daddy of the French Napoleonic eagle bearer! ;) He held the eagle (aquila) standard of the entire legion, and it was just as (in fact even more) sacred than the French eagles. The standards that come with the normal sets are not eagles are cohort standards. Yes, it would look great and be appropriate to have the aquilifer with the legate commanding the legion.

If you are going to go with multi-figure bases, you could probably do something like 2x bases = First Cohort to start with, and then treat the other single bases as other cohorts (thus giving you the "elite" unit in contrast to the regulars if you want). If he wants bigger units, you can just fill them in as you go. Three bases per unit looks really nice, with the "command stand" (centurion, standard bearer, and musician if you want) in the center.

Cheers,

Christopher

One other thing, if you don't mind! Buy this book, and you will have a reference that will teach you all the basics of ancient warfare (including great illustrations for a painting guide), and your son will have a book he will use for his entire life. I still have my copy I bought in high school, and my son has his own copy. :)

link

You will also need some enemies to play against.
Gauls, Germans, Dacians, other Romans etc.

By the time legions had those shields, Gauls were speaking Latin and joining the senate.

The first cohort was not quite double strength. It had 5 double strength centuries instead of 6 standard size centuries.