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"More fantasy WW2 from Warlord!" Topic


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975 hits since 16 Jun 2017
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Fred Cartwright17 Jun 2017 2:14 a.m. PST

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As an alternative to Konflikt 47 Warlord have produced this book about a second invasion of England after Sea Lion. Seems even more implausible than Seal Lion. Just how are the Germans going to land a Panzer Army in north east England without the RN tearing it apart at sea? It is a long voyage from Norway and no fighter cover for most of the way.

Personal logo Jeff Ewing Supporting Member of TMP17 Jun 2017 5:47 a.m. PST

I don't have the books, so I would be curious to know what the in-game rationale is. Certainly the fate of _The Prince of Wales_, and the horrific losses around Crete in 1941 shows that navies were perhaps a little sanguine about the threat posed by strike aircraft?

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP17 Jun 2017 6:30 a.m. PST

Since it is all hypothetical, I don't think it matters that much.

TacticalPainter0117 Jun 2017 6:38 a.m. PST

Remember, you should never let the facts get in the way of the potential sales from a new line of figures…….

Fred Cartwright17 Jun 2017 6:52 a.m. PST

I don't have the books, so I would be curious to know what the in-game rationale is. Certainly the fate of _The Prince of Wales_, and the horrific losses around Crete in 1941 shows that navies were perhaps a little sanguine about the threat posed by strike aircraft?

Works both ways though doesn't it. The German invasion fleet would be under attack from RAF aircraft for most of the way over, without aircraft cover. Once they got close the RN would benefit from air cover from UK based fighters plus and fighters on accompanying aircraft carriers. Also RN can attack at night – quite possible to shoot up/torpedo slow moving merchant vessels at night and the Luftwaffe would be impotent.

Earl of the North17 Jun 2017 8:14 a.m. PST

Operation Sea Lion has proceeded, both sides have lost a lot and as a result the remainder of the German forces have been pushed to Kent where they prepare their defences against the inevitable British attack. The German high command refuse to let their blitzkrieg falter at this stage and concoct a brave, audacious and completely unexpected plan…

Operation Gigant is phase two of the theoretical plan to invade Britain that has been brought forward and into action as phase one falters!

Glider borne troops and vehicles are bought in to create a surprise second front in North East England, splitting the British defences still further and driving a steel wedge down through the heart of the British countryside!

Seems to suggest this is meant to be a market garden style campaign for the Germans, with armour advancing from Southern England.

Since this is hypothetical anyway, I'd assume the RAF being focused on Southern England allows the Germans to successfully launch a mass airborne assault on the North East.

Tommy2017 Jun 2017 10:14 a.m. PST

I always thought any Operation Sealion scenario assumed the RAF was reduced to impotence by the Germans winning the Battle of Britain.

28mm Fanatik17 Jun 2017 10:26 a.m. PST

Which begs the question: "Is this unlikely scenario any less plausible than the continuation of WWII in 1947 with superweapons like walkers and troops with jetpacks?"

If we can suspend our disbelief and not ask too many questions on the how's with Konflict '47, we surely can play hypothetical scenarios like this without asking too many questions.

Fred Cartwright17 Jun 2017 4:59 p.m. PST

Since this is hypothetical anyway, I'd assume the RAF being focused on Southern England allows the Germans to successfully launch a mass airborne assault on the North East.

I thought 7th Flieger division was committed to Sea Lion what airborne forces does that leave? The Germans didn't have that many airborne troops in 1940 and certainly not enough to lay a carpet from Kent to north east England. From the scenario presented it looks like an attack from the north east heading south and west presumably to take out the industrial heartland of the UK.

If we can suspend our disbelief and not ask too many questions on the how's with Konflict '47, we surely can play hypothetical scenarios like this without asking too many questions.

That is why I compared it to Konklikt 47. It is definitely in the fantasy WW2 league. There are WW2 what ifs that are plausible, but this isn't one of them. It isn't an operation that would have been in any German generals wildest dream. Not least of which is the total lack of any suitable equipment or shipping for an operation of this type.

repaint17 Jun 2017 5:25 p.m. PST

I suppose it is just an excuse to fight with all what UK prepared in case of a 1941 invasion but never actually got around to do.

What if by excellence. Not so much an issue. Just take it with a large spoon of salt and enjoy funny fights.

Ironsides17 Jun 2017 7:53 p.m. PST

It's an excuse to sell figures.

uglyfatbloke Supporting Member of TMP18 Jun 2017 1:10 a.m. PST

It's an excuse to have early WW2 games set in Britain.All our games are fantasies anyway so what odds does it make where we set them? I'm not a fan of invented forces personally, but if it makes for entertaining games I've nothing against it.

Fred Cartwright18 Jun 2017 2:45 a.m. PST

All our games are fantasies anyway so what odds does it make where we set them?

Actually most of my games are plausible scenarios or based on real events. I would put Sea Lion into that category as the operation was planned and the barges and troops etc were assembled even though the 1970's wargame at Sandhurst concluded that it was doomed to failure. I find this one from Warlord a bit too "out there" for my taste. Never been tempted by VBCW either. Too many real fights to do first.

SquireBev18 Jun 2017 6:52 a.m. PST

If it gets more people into Early War stuff, then what's the problem?

Griefbringer18 Jun 2017 7:29 a.m. PST

I thought 7th Flieger division was committed to Sea Lion what airborne forces does that leave?

Well, the description specifically talks about glider-borne troops, which in principle could be converted from ordinary infantry. Presuming that you have enough gliders, glider pilots and aircraft to haul the gliders across the North Sea. Plus enough fighter cover to prevent RAF from using them for target practice. Plus once they have been deployed they would probably need to be supplied from air.

Granted, the premise sounds a bit odd: if the Germans would have difficulties maintaining an attack in the south east, then splitting their reserves by opening another front does not sound wise though then again Hitler usually did not have troubles with opening second front.

I suppose it is just an excuse to fight with all what UK prepared in case of a 1941 invasion but never actually got around to do.

However, Warlord already released a book for the original Operation Sea Lion earlier in this year, which would already allow you to do that. Maybe they got a bit carried away with the concept, to make a second book.

---------------------------------------------------

That said, the use of expression "could of" in the description almost made me spill my tea!

altfritz18 Jun 2017 9:23 a.m. PST

Don't forget that the Tirpitz and escorts sailed up the Channel in broad daylight with only a token challenge from a lone Swordfish squadron.

Fred Cartwright18 Jun 2017 3:41 p.m. PST

Don't forget that the Tirpitz and escorts sailed up the Channel in broad daylight with only a token challenge from a lone Swordfish squadron.

Which proves nothing. A channel dash is not the same as staying to fight in support of a landing. They also benefited from a maximum effort from the Luftwaffe from convenient bases in Northern France. Not possible for an invasion of the north of England. The operation was also conducted in atrocious weather which hindered the detection of the Germans and the subsequent British response.

codiver19 Jun 2017 3:54 a.m. PST

Tirpitz was not in the Channel Dash (Operation Cerberus). That was Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, and Prinz Eugen.

Legion 419 Jun 2017 3:58 a.m. PST

79thPA


Since it is all hypothetical, I don't think it matters that much.

TacticalPainter01


Remember, you should never let the facts get in the way of the potential sales from a new line of figures…….



Agree totally with both posts … thumbs up

Khusrau21 Jun 2017 12:49 p.m. PST

The essential premise for Sea Lion was that air superiority was achieved by the Luftwaffe. If that's the case, and this was achieved even long enough for an initial landing, then there is every chance airfields in Southern England could have been used to provide fighter cover.

If you accept the initial premise then the follow-up is at least – more plausible.

Fred Cartwright21 Jun 2017 3:02 p.m. PST

The essential premise for Sea Lion was that air superiority was achieved by the Luftwaffe. If that's the case, and this was achieved even long enough for an initial landing, then there is every chance airfields in Southern England could have been used to provide fighter cover.

Air cover for Sea Lion agreed, but not for an invasion of north east England! Single seat fighters would be out of range. A second landing further along the south coast maybe or East Anglia, but not the north of England.

Griefbringer22 Jun 2017 9:06 a.m. PST

Perhaps the Warlord team had some over-ethusiastic Geordie working on the Bolt Action releases, and he thought that his home county should also see some action, not just the south-east.

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