"Any large naval battles christian vs islam in age of cog" Topic

Were there any large naval battles with western christian cogs vs Islam

Lepanto 1571.
Or is that too late for you?

Adramyttion (1334)?

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although both sides used galleys. Weren't Cogs more a north west European thing? While in the Med where Christian vs Islam battles were more likely everyone used galleys.

There were some engagements between Italian 'round ships' and Islamic galleys. I think both Genoese and Venetian sailing merchant ships were attacked and this would be around the time Cogs were in use in Northern Europe.

Cogs would probably have sailed into the Med but the med equivalents were differently rigged and dissimilar hulls.

Towards the end of the siege of Rhodes in 1480, a couple of Neapolitan 'great ships' arrived. One of them successfully fought against twenty Turkish galleys – it seems to have not been an oared ship since it was becalmed.

The Portuguese ships sent to aid Venice against the Turks in the 1490s may have been sail only, though perhaps caravels or similar rather than cogs.

Thanks guys

None of those examples are likely to be cogs. You may be able to argue for small actions around Spain or west coast of France, but the cog-operating world and the Islamic-nautical world just didn't overlap enough for large-scale cogs vs Islam matchups.

Might as well ask if Cogs and Chinese junks fought any large scale actions – they are contemporaneous, after all… but not in the same places.

That isn't comparing like with like.
The Frisians, for example, sailed cogs round from the North Sea into the Med and participated in the Crusades. They are shown using a cog style ship in a picture of an attack on Damietta – while this would involve artistic licence, the ships they used would be their own rather than a Med style galley.
Villani specifically mentions the use of cogs by first Bayonnese and then Genoses, Venetian and Aragonese in the Med.
Much of the shipping used by St Louis Crusade agaisnt Egypt was also of the round hulled square rigged type.

link goes into plenty of detail of the use of cogs and related square-rigged ships (nefs, carracks etc.) in the Med.

Battles involving these ships in the Med are harder to find, but they were often the transports which were being escorted by galleys. That they could, and did, fight is shown by the example of the siege of Rhodes.

Ubbo Emmius released a detailed account on the Frisian part in that crusade in his "Frisian History" around 1600, and while there are many detailed reports of sieges and battles, not a single sea action is mentioned (apart from the conquest of a river boat – though that one did not involve cogs). So while the Frisians indeed sailed a fleet of cogs along Spain and Portugal towards Egypt and back, there was no sea battle. Afaik at that time the Islamic world was not able to field substantial galley fleets, more due to a lack of need then any inability.

Cogs and Islamic galleys are not only seperated by space, but also largely by time.

Towards the end of the siege of Rhodes in 1480, a couple of Neapolitan 'great ships' arrived. One of them successfully fought against twenty Turkish galleys – it seems to have not been an oared ship since it was becalmed.

It seems that, before gunpowder, there was relatively little round ships and galleys could do to one another. Oared vessels could manoeuvre at will around sailing ships, but boarding the taller vessels was extremely difficult, and medieval galleys didn't have rams.

The Frisians, for example, sailed cogs round from the North Sea into the Med and participated in the Crusades. They are shown using a cog style ship in a picture of an attack on Damietta – while this would involve artistic licence, the ships they used would be their own rather than a Med style galley.

What illustration are you referring to? It's important to remember that medieval and early Renaissance writers and illustrators were not famous for researching the actual look of weaponry and equipment, or ships, used long before their own time or by far-away cultures they had not personally come into contact with. They used to show the types they were familiar with or made inaccurate copies from other works. So, e.g. this picture showing "crusaders at Damietta" is in no way historically accurate, of course. The ships shown are either (predominantly clinker built, northern) hulks or very early (predominantly carvel built, mediterranean) carracks rather than cogs (personally, I consider them to be hulks, to judge from their "banana-shaped" hulls and the way the castles are fixed to the hull):

Afaik at that time the Islamic world was not able to field substantial galley fleets, more due to a lack of need then any inability.

That's not quite correct. I recommend the following title which, in every respect, is one of the best introductions to the subject of naval warfare, ship types, technology, fleet strength, etc. in the Mediterranean during the medieval and early Renaissance eras:

link

Lepanto 1571.
Or is that too late for you?

For me, it's too mistaken. Lepanto was a fight between galleys (various types of oared ships, but just galley type oared ships). No "cogs", or carracks, or galleons around.

The battle of Zonchio may be a candidate but it's quite late (1499) and I'm a little confused as the quite well known contemporary picture of the battle shows large carracks (both Venetian and Ottoman) and galleys (just Ottoman) while, according to Wikipedia, galleys, galliots (smaller galley type ships) and small vessels (of unspecified type) – no carracks – were involved…

link

I recommend the following title

Thanks. Ordered…

A larger and wider image of The Battle of Zonchio (Navarino), 1499, woodcut coloured using stencils

MIRROR SITE
The Battle of Zonchio (Navarino), 1499, woodcut coloured using stencils
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This is a later, colourised version of Crusaders at Damietta from the 1522 French edition of ‌Breydenbach's Peregrinationes in Terram Sanctam

MIRROR SITE
Breydenbach's Peregrinationes in Terram Sanctam, 1486

Druzhina
15th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers