"Realistic Dark Age Rules" Topic

Which dark age rules do you think do the best job of realistically simulating the dynamics of skirmish warfare in the Dark Ages?

I ask because lots of dark age rules make an explicit virtue of portraying "the legend" – I was wondering which rules try and go the other way.

Considering that we know very little about the details of how men fought during that period I would say that any replies would be very subjective.

The 'legend' is pretty much all we have. Some is nearly contemporary but most was written later and may be suspect.

Add to that the fact that many wargamers prefer the 'Hollywood' approach to history anyway and you are really on a hiding to nothing.

You might consider "longships " by Peter Pig. These are historical, not Hollywood. There are lots of details about the rules on the PP website. In longships the troops operate as ship crews . Typical 8 15mm bases or 8 single 25mm figures. . This means a unit would have a combination of armoured and unarmored troops. A typical unit v unit fight would consist of closing to near the enemy, putting up a shield wall, releasing some line breakers and then closing in for a push and shove fight.

Just visit the PP website and go through the rules section and see our 15mm dark ages range.
Good hunting

link

Realism in wargames…

Pig Wars.

Ganesha Games do Song of Arthur and Merlin and that breaks out the rules into separate sections for proper historical gaming and then kinda fantasy stuff with King Arthur etc. The historical units play as a non heroic set of rules leaving the heros for other types of games.

Pig Wars as noted is another set to look at.

Longships isn't skirmish is it Martin Goddard? For non-skirmish I figure any of the popular ancient rule sets should work as they are not heroic focussed.

I second Pig Wars. It takes into consideration that your warband will be a mix of types, not separate armored, unarmored, missile untits. It also takes into consideration the importance of a banner and leader for morale.
The whole point of the rules, in my opinion, is to highlight
what dark age violence was often about: stealing stuff.
Is is, however, strictly skirmish. It would bog down with too many troops.

No one knows for certain. We don't really even know what they looked like. We know what a few of them looked like from helmets, chainmail, art and such but, not what the bulk of the Dark Age armies looked like.

However do you think we could know "…realistically simulating the dynamics of skirmish warfare…?"

Find a set of rules you enjoy and play the "GAME."

As has been said, the subject of rules is highly subjective and our knowledge of the warfare of the period highly conjectural but we like Dux Britanniarum from the TooFatLardies which we play in 28mm.

You might consider Dark Age Infantry Slog System by Andy Callan. Its free and an interesting read and take on gaming the era:

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Which dynamics of what type of skirmish when during the Dark Ages?

The rules being used here:
YouTube link

"Skirmish" being one on one, or single element basing, our rules play like a skirmish game and model full battle formations. To turn it into a skirmish game, just say that each figure/base is one man and allow the formation movement rules to slide……….. link

I always thought mine did…? link

What about SAGA? I tried it 3 years ago and haven't played anything but, since. A fantastically fun game using 30 to 40 figures. And best of all… someone is playing it not far from where you live!

Battlelust by Columbia Games. It is a skirmish game based on the Harnmaster RPG rules.

Realistic? Everyone does from sepsis…

In the Dark Ages they couldn't write, so there wouldn't be any dark age rules.

In the Dark Ages they couldn't write, so there wouldn't be any dark age rules.

I know you jest! seriously, though, --this would be true for the majority, but the nobility would be substantially literate to some degree, and almost all religious order brothers would be the same.
Many merchants and governmental functionaries too!

Again, I realize it was a joke, but read the Venerable Bede to put to sleep the notion that the age was one, unbroken "dark age." His was a remarkable mind, highly cultured, and he didn't work in isolation.

I guess "dark age" would depend on which end of the continent and which end of the stick one resided.

"How do you know he's king?

Because he doesn't have s--t all over him"

I have played DAIS, they are, I think, one of the most "realistic" game systems, however, they are not very entertaining and are not what all wargamers like.

In simple terms you line up opposite each other and advance, melee and then its all over. There is very little manoeuvring and this is what some gamers find difficult and do not like.

Pig Wars

I agree with most of the above, but it's a sliding scale.

For how undramatic actual "battles" probably were: Dark Age Infantry Slog (or anything similar where you just line up and roll dice)

For how small scale warfare probably played out as small groups of men differently armed and motivated: Pig Wars ("When Men were Men and Pigs were Money")

How I want to imagine (and play) the drama of raid and ambush and duels: Lion Rampant

Cheers,

Christopher

Despite not being a skirmish game as such, if you were to restrict the movement of individual units a little more I imagine that Dux Bellorum would come pretty close to the reality.

I'm a big fan of Dux Britanniarum from the TFL stable but that's 'big' skirmish with say up to 50 figures a side. Simple game with an excellent campaign system. really gritty and no heroics.
For the time being it's a bit limited to the UK continent but fan made versions of for example the Viking Age have already been made.
For a really man-on- man skirmish game I suggest you look at Blood eagle.