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"Which model of Panzer IV for Kursk?" Topic


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14 Jun 2017 5:06 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Which model or Panzer IV for Kursk?" to "Which model of Panzer IV for Kursk?"

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Comments or corrections?

Field Marshal13 Jun 2017 6:47 p.m. PST

I need to get some Panzer IV for my LSAH division for Prokorovkha and was wondering which models should I have. Im using Field of Battle so a Tank represents a company so its not important to get every single variant but a good representative. Which Pz IV?

d88mm194013 Jun 2017 7:35 p.m. PST

In July 1943, at the start of the Kursk battles, the LAH had:
2nd SS Panzer Regt
4 x PzII
3 x PzIII short barrel
10 x PzIIIm Long barrel
67 x PzIVh (52 in 3 companies with the PzIIIs)
13 x Tigers (9 in one company)
The PZIIIs were usually HQ vehicles.
The odd number of Tigers and PzIVs may have been in reserve or workshops
2nd battalion had all Panthers
LAH destroyed some 500 Russian tanks before pulling back to refit.
The 'Key' Division symbol is from Sepp Dietrich's name, where 'dietrich' is slang for skeleton key.

Battle Phlox13 Jun 2017 7:36 p.m. PST

Model G would be a good safe bet but there were also a few Model Hs.

Fred Cartwright14 Jun 2017 1:41 a.m. PST

LSSAH had 1st SS PzRgt not 2nd. No SS Panthers at Kursk. Only Panthers at Kursk were the 51st and 52nd Panzer battalions operationally under the control of Grossdeutchland.

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP14 Jun 2017 4:27 a.m. PST

Peter Pig has all the PzIV variants if that helps?

deephorse14 Jun 2017 5:39 a.m. PST

The Battlegroup Kursk rulebook says that SSLAH had a mix of Gs and Hs in it's TO&E. The German sources I have only differentiate between short barrel or long barrel.

Martin Rapier14 Jun 2017 6:01 a.m. PST

I'd go with Gs with side skirts.

iirc FOB uses company sized stands, so you don't need huge numbers.

Old Wolfman16 Jun 2017 7:17 a.m. PST

Any of them with schurtzen?

deephorse16 Jun 2017 7:39 a.m. PST

Schurzen.

"Operation Citadel" by Restayn & Moller (volume 1) has numerous colour profiles of identified vehicles that took part in the battle. Three of them are of LSSAH Pz IVs. Two are Gs and one is an H. One has no schurzen, one has turret only and one has turret and hull.

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