Deeman | 12 Jun 2017 9:44 p.m. PST |
Started back with bolt action and this fun sucking rule raised its head again. So rather than giving up on this rule set I was thinking of modifying this rule to only work against units firing at the tiger fear having tank. This satisfies a couple of arguments. It adds protection to the tank if you believe the tanks were overpriced and hence tiger fear was added. An enemy tank failing it's tiger fear test would flee which fits for the history buffs. Please share your opinion on this change. |
Warcolours Painting Studio | 13 Jun 2017 2:05 a.m. PST |
We have found that the best iteration of the Bolt Action Ruleset, which is excellent under many aspects, is when you simply discard all national rules and use historical OOBs. The system shines and having historical organizations forces the player to use real tactics, rather than relying on gimmicks to win the game |
Big Red | 13 Jun 2017 4:44 a.m. PST |
+1 Warcolours Painting Studio. |
VVV reply | 13 Jun 2017 9:32 a.m. PST |
I think Allied tankers went on and fought the Tigers, even though they knew they were out gunned and that the Tiger armour was tough to beat. Running away does not seem historical. Whats the 'Tiger Fear' rule in Bolt Action? |
durecell | 13 Jun 2017 10:34 a.m. PST |
Tiger fear causes any unit (not just tanks) that can see the tank to take a order test in order to do any action other than shoot at the tank. If they already needed to take order test then it is at a -1 penalty. Tiger fear causing tank are not just limited to Tigers, PIV causes fear as well. |
VVV reply | 13 Jun 2017 2:07 p.m. PST |
OK thanks for that. Does not seem to make any historical sense, but then its just a set of rules. In history, Russian tanks seemed to charge Tigers to close the distance (It takes a brave man to be a coward in the Soviet army, Stalin). Allied crews seemed to sneak round to get a shot at the side/rear armour. In other words doing the most sensible thing possible. In my WW2 rules (Action all Fronts) that would be the best choices for the players. We played have played the scenario of the Tiger I vs 4 Shermans from the film Fury many times link I have always wondered what it would be like under other rules. I would have thought that the Tiger would lose under Bolt Action (Tiger outnumbered 4 to 1, 475 points vs 624). |
Deeman | 13 Jun 2017 9:59 p.m. PST |
Warcolours I feel the other national rules overall have a minor impact on the game and offer some individuality to the different armies that would otherwise appear very similar. The tiger fear rule stands out amongst these in that it negatively effects your opponent during their turn and in such a broad way as to generate frustration. It is the belief that the rule was implemented in v2 to account for some imbalance in the points costs of German tanks or to counter the American move and fire without penalty ability, which would be a detriment to every other nations if that were the case. I therefore seek to modify the rule to satisfy that belief while making this rule, which I have failed to find anyone who sees it as not overpowered to some degree, less a detriment to the opponents army that does not seek to engage the German tank, but is unfortunate enough to draw line of sight to it. VVV I appreciate your input but my priority is a balanced and fun game for everyone and not an accurate historical accounting. Mostly I am interested in those who play Bolt Action and have some experience with the rules and the Tiger Rule in particular. |
VVV reply | 14 Jun 2017 2:18 a.m. PST |
VVV I appreciate your input but my priority is a balanced and fun game for everyone and not an accurate historical accounting. Absolutely, we only play games to have fun. But its seems the Tiger Fear rule in BA has nothing to do with history, so what is the point of adding it to the game? Does it make the game more fun to have it in? My point is to have a set of rules which encourage players to play historically, so that they can feel that they are are fighting the period. Now to that end I allow the Russian tanks to move and fire without penalty, because thats what they did (their shooting was fairly rubbish anyway, so it did not make much difference). Russians also get to buy small groups of tanks at a points discount, so that you get more Russians for the same amount of points but they are limited in that they all have to perform the same actions at the same time (lack of command control). So thats an example of a national characteristic, trying to actually be historical. Other national rules: USA: Faster artillery response than other nations, a 75mm tank gun designed to fire HE. Russians: Get to pick an Order that every unit in the force gets a morale bonus when it uses it. Japanese: Fanatics (of course) and splitting off marksmen from squads. Italians: Tanks that enemy fire can go straight through. Germans: Panzer units can perform two activation's once per game. My advice, drop the Tiger Fear rule when you play BA. |
VVV reply | 14 Jun 2017 2:27 a.m. PST |
Oh and one more thing. Morale in a tank is different to that in the infantry. The tank and crew are going to go wherever the driver takes them. The driver is going to answer to the commander and the gunners job is to shoot. It does make a difference to how people behave. |
HANS GRUBER | 28 Aug 2017 6:40 a.m. PST |
The Tiger fear rule doesn't do much to balance (some of the allied advantages) in Bolt Action if (German) players are afraid to take tanks causing the Tiger fear. Rather than totally doing away with national characteristics, one could negotiate implemation. For example, the German player could agree not to implement tiger fear if the British player doesn't take a free artillery observer or if the American player doesn't take a free air strike. |
Lee494 | 28 Aug 2017 4:36 p.m. PST |
Of course you could always try my rules. No need for special rules. The stats reflect history. It's interesting to see the Tiger Phobia kick in for real as the allied players do everything they can to kill it or avoid it … Totally losing sight of actual victory conditions. I don't think rules systems should need a lot of special rules to have things work out historically. If the game isn't playing historically there's a glitch in the rules or unit data. As for Fury several Shermans could and did take on a Tiger tank but with maneuver not a head on Banzai charge like in the movie. They'd all be toast. Cheers! |
torokchar | 10 Sep 2017 6:48 p.m. PST |
Tiger Fear – WORST rule ever written!! |
Thomas Thomas | 13 Sep 2017 9:11 a.m. PST |
Bolt Action is not designed to simulate WWII battle – only to provide a fun game and a viable commerical product for its makers. Very few national difference rules have any historical basis and are based on myths. Nearly all 75mm guns had an effective HE shell (some of the higher velocity guns were a tad less effective but only a tad). Its all nonsense – but your playing Bolt Action so its all in good fun. TomT |
Deadles | 13 Sep 2017 11:04 p.m. PST |
I watched a game of Bolt Action where this Tiger Fear rule was in place and it just seemed stupid to have even infantry affected by it. I could tell the American player was frustrated by it. So not only is it not historical but it's also bad rules design that potentially ruins the other player's fun. Thomas Thomas, the complete lack of any kind of historical immersion (including stupid national/faction rules), and complete lack of realistic fire and manoeuvre tactics is what completely kills this game for me. |