"Too much "realism" in wargames?" Topic

Do you find there is too much "realism" in some wargame rule sets? What could or should be left out of a wargame? What could be more "real"?

Why does it pop my question up twice? I use a iPad mini, and TMP does this to my posts a great deal. Maybe it isn't configured properly for iPads. Or it could be me with my big meaty fingers.

"too much"? Not enough in my opinion. You should have been around in the 70s and 80s, where most rules sets took things probably a bit too far! Most of today's rules are streamlined for fast play and realism is way down the priority list. I'm not saying that's a bad approach, but realism in war-games is one of those "eternal" arguments.

There is realism and there is granularity and complexity. The two are not synonymous nor exclusive but often conflated together.

Ipads and other Apple devices have a somewhat history of double posting.

So I have heard.

Realism? Realism is boredom, malnutrition, exhaustion, and brutality, occasionally punctuated by clouds of gunsmoke and hot lead singing about your ears.

Agree with aegis. Today's rules are much more playable, and geared for our lack of time and competing interests. Not suggesting that's bad, but it does tend a bit more toward vanilla.

As Mick says realism and complexity are not the same thing. The mere fact that wargamers looking down at a table with a Gods eye view of the action unavailable to commanders at a battle (usually the narratives of historical battles are the creation of historians, who sometimes get things wrong or at least debatable) make wargames totally unrealistic.

I suppose you could approach this from the complexity angle. I was thinking about games that make you keep track of bullets/ tank shells and have the players reload, etc. I find that slows down the game without adding any element of interest (for me), although I am sure the designers were trying to add realism and complexity/granularity to their rules set. That is what I was thinking about.

One of the things I love about the hobby is that there's something for everyone. There's a wide variety of rules available. From realistic (however one defines it) to Hollywood. From complex to simple. And lots of things in between. And if you can't find a published set of rules or a game that you like, make up your own. After all, the only person you have to please is yourself.

+1 Ragbones.

1980s = ALL BAOR = DRUNK .. not covered by any ruleset I've used to date (personal mods excl.)

Here we go again.

+1/2 to Ragbones. I disagree in that you have to have something acceptable to the group. I'll stop playing if I ever have to game solo.

In regards to "limited playing time," that is your choice of priorities. There are still 24 hours in a day and I will always make time for my hobbies.

Surely if we are attempting to make a game out of war then we need to replicate the issues that are real in war? Obviously not the bullets, the mud, the boredom, but the decisions that are you commander has to make? Get that bit as real as possible and I would've thought that would be the perfect wargame.

One thing that continues to be wildly extracted away is Napoleonic units that surrendered. In the batreps of the day, it's a frequently occurring event.

So is the never ending capture, repulse, capture again sequence.

"1980s = ALL BAOR = DRUNK"

Absolutely no idea what this gobbledegook means.

I think what DG is trying to say is that an aspect of the Cold War that is infrequently modelled in Wargames is the fact that (in his opinion) the British Army of the Rhine was permanently DUI (Driving under the Influence (of alcohol?)).

Mollinary

A wargame is a ultimately just a game. The author of the game picks a few areas which interests him and tries to simulate them. The more you simulate, the more the game becomes bogged down. The more bogged down the game, the less fun it is to play. It's a delicate balance choosing what you want to simulate and what you want abstracted.

USAFpilot,

I think that you've expressed the situation perfectly.

@USAFpilot,

Ditto to what dilettante said.

Nail on the head USAFpilot, the more we try to replicate real life the duller the game gets.