| Lascaris | 03 Jun 2017 12:14 p.m. PST |
I've always had a huge interest in this siege and I'm thinking of doing a project with all, or most of the battle. Has anyone ever done, or seen such a thing and if so, any thoughts on rules and figures? |
| Porthos | 03 Jun 2017 12:45 p.m. PST |
For figures I suggest Empress Miniatures:
link And google "miniature wargame Dien Bien Phu" for a lot of images, one of them the table during CRISIS 2013. |
| Pictors Studio | 03 Jun 2017 12:49 p.m. PST |
Actually FNG manufactures the Dien Bien Phu range. link |
| Pictors Studio | 03 Jun 2017 12:51 p.m. PST |
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 Extra Crispy  | 03 Jun 2017 1:05 p.m. PST |
I have looked at it time and time again. The problem I found is that if you build the ground scale where a stongpoint has enough room for the French player to do stuff, you end up with a huge table, even if you leave off Isabelle. Without Isabelle you need a 3x5 mile table. So on a 6x10 table, you need a ground scale where 6" = 1 mile.
I think you'd need to do it as a mini campaign, maybe using a boardgame to connect the individual assaults. |
| Lascaris | 03 Jun 2017 4:29 p.m. PST |
Isn't it 2' per mile if 5 miles on a 10' table? A 100yd/inch scale would work fine I think. I know eureka makes some 15mm figures but not sure what to use for Vietnamese paratroops in French service or even the French paratroops for that matter. |
| Cambria5622 | 04 Jun 2017 5:34 a.m. PST |
As Lascaris says, if using a 10' table to represent 5 miles of actual ground, this would give an approximate ground scale of about 100yds/inch (actually more like 75yds/inch). If a single troop stand is 1" wide, then I suggest this will represent a platoon, and therefore, to my mind, 6mm scale would probably look better than 15mm. I think at 6mm scale you will capture the look of the terrain and defensive works better without having to make so many compromises. |
| Extra Crispy | 04 Jun 2017 6:44 a.m. PST |
Ugh. Yes, 24" per mile, not 6". But the ground scale issue remains. You have loads of French packed in to a very small space. Gabrielle, for example, would be maybe 12x6" at this scale and was defended by an entire battalion. It's not that it couldn't be done overall. But in the end it seemed to me a much better candidate for a two map solution. A strategic map of the valley on the one hand. Then carry out the attacks on a tactical map with a ground scale like 1" = 25 yards. Otherwise the AFrench player will have very little to do during hill fights other than roll dice. |
| Lascaris | 04 Jun 2017 9:35 a.m. PST |
That's a good suggestion to fight the battles more tactically. Opens up the rules options and maybe even allows 28mm figs, I just ordered Legion Games Dien Bien Phu game and I'm hoping that will work for the map portion. |
Joes Shop  | 04 Jun 2017 11:14 a.m. PST |
"I think you'd need to do it as a mini campaign, maybe using a boardgame to connect the individual assaults." Agreed. Currently I'm collecting/painting the DBP Range and while I haven't planned on gaming the siege, if I were, I would break it down (chronologically) into a series of linked scenarios. I would use the same 'linked' Scenario/Mini-Campaign format as used by Skirmish Campaigns, Iron Ivan, etc. |
| Extra Crispy | 04 Jun 2017 11:33 a.m. PST |
I have the Vae Victus game for sale on Boardgamegeek for $20 USD… link |
| Schlesien | 04 Jun 2017 11:54 a.m. PST |
Awhile back I played in a 10mm game. Rules were homegrown. link |
| catavar | 10 Sep 2017 12:14 p.m. PST |
I'm going back a ways but I recall a thread about DBP on the Command Decision Board. I think it had the east side hills (Elaines, etc) set up to scale for 15mm. CD's smallest unit is a platoon. |
| Blutarski | 10 Sep 2017 5:51 p.m. PST |
A long, tough, bruising and ultimately losing grind for the French side unless the historical tactical or diplomatic/political situation is altered in some fashion. Just saying. B |
| Mithmee | 14 Sep 2017 5:43 p.m. PST |
Well you need to have about a 5th of the France force not fighting since they decided not to fight. link France had totally hosed over this battle. They did not put enough men or supplies to protect it and the Strongpoints were poorly designed. Plus the French air power was mismanaged completely. |
| catavar | 16 Sep 2017 12:37 p.m. PST |
Very true about those who decided to remain aloft from the fight. To be fair, I think many felt abandoned by the high command and the Thai's were not trained for static (trench) warfare. I agree with your point about men and supplies. The lay out of the camp left much to be desired. But so did choosing DBP as the location for the camp itself. It was the opposite of Na San.
Still, the French deployed almost every elite battalion they had in Indochina to DBP and there wasn't enough material at hand to properly protect the bunkers. They didn't expect the VM artillery to be effective anyway. Would be interested in your view of French air cover. |
| darthfozzywig | 04 Mar 2018 4:57 p.m. PST |
Has anyone used Spearhead to game this? You could fit the core of the French defenses and surrounding area on a 4' x 6' board (sorry, Isabelle, you get ignored once again). The French weren't completely passive during the siege, launching counterattacks to recapture strongpoints and at least one large-scale raid on Viet Minh artillery. That should inspire a French player to do more than passively await his demise. |
