"Why I am nervous about Crowdfunded rules/boardgames..." Topic

I have no problem with crowdfunding new ranges of miniatures, because the crowdfunder usually provides samples of what he intends to produce.

With rules/games, I am a lot less confident. Until I can read reviews of the finished rules – hopefully based on a few actual games – I really have no way of knowing how good the rules will be. The exception is if the designer has a track record of rules that I liked.

That's why I rarely sign on for Kickstarters involving boardgames or rulesets.

What percentage do those crowdfunding campaigns fold even after they're supposedly funded? Are there any real statistics of that?

Dan

If it was a game designer who had several sets of rules I liked to their name then I would purchase with confidence. If I didn't know of them, or they had produced games I didn't like previously, I most certainly would not purchase in advance.

There are so many sets of rules produced these days, but I find that there is an awful lot of stuff that is bland and uninspiring. I tend to find that if you want quality there are only a very few game designers who actually deliver every time.

From a couple of years back, about 1 in 11 projects fail after funding;
link

I just get tired of lame excuses for lengthy delay in shipping. I'am currently wait for a game that is 8 months delayed and get a message ever week about how wonderful my game will be and how to make it even better they have to change the manfacturing for better quility.

But If I see this game being sold at Origins or gencon before I get my copy I will be cancelling the whole thing.

I have a few basic "Kickstarter Survival" rules I have begun to follow over the years.

I will only back expensive miniature based games from established companies with a solid track record. I use Cool Mini or Not as a perfect example, backed Blood Rage and The Others with no issues or worries.

Related to the above, unless it is a game that I absolutely "must have" I stay away from expensive miniature based kickstarters that have a ton of "exclusives". I won't buy the game in the aftermarket because of this (CMoN is notorious in this way). Doing so means I lose out on a ton of extras, and the aftermarket price is ridiculous on those.
There have been quite a few games I have passed on because of this (new companies, pricey game, a ton of exclusives….losing combination for me). Will most likely miss out on a few great games because of this.

For expensive miniature games from non-established companies , if they have few exclusives, I will just buy them once they are actually available at retail. I picked up a King's Pledge of Conan this way a few months back at a reasonable price. Some other games I was not willing to back I may grab at a later date when a backer sells the lot at a reasonable mark-up.

For less expensive items such as rule books or RPG books, will back it if I really like the theme. More likely to do so from established companies, but will take a risk on a new company if the KS presentation is good, lots of completed artwork shown, etc. I am willing to risk $50 USD on a new company at most. Sure as hell will not risk $200 USD+ plus on a new companies KS with a ton of exclusives and expansions.

That's just me. In all cases would much rather wait for retail. CMoN games are different because they have a solid track record, price is great, and they have a ton of exclusives that would break the bank if I chased them down after release.

I stay away from CMoN after they chose to ship a piece that they knew wasn't correct instead of delaying for the piece to get fixed.
If I am backing you I have to trust you will be on top of quality as the pieces are sight unseen so to speak.

One shot only.

While I understand how it can help get things made that might not ever be made… I am not a big fan of crowdfunding or Pre-orders (sort of a much shorter time frame crowdfunding)….

I also am not a big fan of crowdfunding as some form of advertising or marketing for figure lines and products that already exist. To me this is dishonest and violates the concept/rules of using crowdfunding to create new products.

That said I have seen several products stumble out of Kickstarter that I do like, one being All Quiet on the Martian Front even though the original company went belly up, the product is not bad and probably would not have been made without Kickstarter.

While I've no complaints about the minis I've gotten over the years (especially Human Interface Nakamura Tower and Zombicide Black Plague), I feel the same as y'all about rules. Every game I've gotten have rules that are Beta-1 (except ZBP). I don't think Kickstarter is a good way to fund new rules, as the play testing has to be really extensive, yet there's never enough time.

Don't have a problem backing a board game kickstarter. I just do a lot of research on the rules and how they play. If they can't bother to put out the rules or let people play and show the game on youtube, I don't bother with it.

Now I refuse to back any and all games with miniatures. I have seen way too many of these get delayed for up to a year or more. I am not one to wait 2 years for miniatures. I am more buy and paint now while I am interested in the project.

It always depends. If the goal is in doubt and I want the game, I jump in. If the deal is good and I want the game, I jump in. If I do not want the game, I am out. If I do not trust the company (sometimes because the deal is too good), I am out. And if I am out of money for games (the usual situation) …

On principle, when pledging I always consider a substantial chance that the money will be lost and prepare for a total loss. As of yet, I got lucky…

Miniatures projects I back for the miniatures. If they come with rules, I have no expectations that the rules will be to my liking. It will be a nice free bonus if they are. Hasn't happened yet.

I have backed a few boardgames and card games where they provided sufficient examples of play and reviews based on early test copies. The research is also backed up by checking discussion threads on BoardGameGeek. I have been happy with the ones I've chosen to back.

Interesting topic: the board game KS's I've backed have always come through while it's certainly been 'hit and miss' with miniatures.

The current model with most boardgame KS's is to publish the rules (or rules draft) free online or at least a pdf outlining same so the consumer should be able to get a good idea prior to pulling the trigger.

I always accept that there will be shipping delays which can still be frustrating.

Back to OP, same ditto. With miniatures, boardgame or not, I can at least play them in other games.

If it's a revision, reprint, or a new version of an existing game system, it's easier for me to back the project.

Many boardgames will present the rules, and some will have a PnP demo you can play.

Still looking forward to CMON's Game of Thrones miniature wargame, since I could use some human units (not that I'll find time to paint them…).

I never bothered with KickStarter until my buddy showed me customized Magic cards with images of our gaming group on the face. I thought that was a clever idea for a gag to put inside someone's deck, or create a custom thought for a game that included cards.

He had this hand-crafted prototype of a card-holding "template" that could feed a card into his color laser printer and not jam. So, we thought about how to make it a "real" product, sourcing paper, custom die-cutting, and so on, plus the PDF and Word files needed to hold image and text -- and how to deliver them.

That left the funding…hello, KickStarter.

While we debated about KS, we sprung for a prototype, which worked a little better than his hand-crafted version, then ran off 100 that, sadly, were 1/16th of an inch off due to a die-cutting error. We corrected that and ran off another batch of 100 that worked fine. We ran a single "template" through his printer over 100 times to make sure the material would hold up. Then we stacked five and ran them through to make sure they wouldn't jam with each other.

We thought about the different card sizes and settled on three for the first effort: poker, bridge, and half-size. That would cover Magic, Pokémon, Dominion, Zombiecide, and others.

When all of those worked, then we launched a KS campaign for The Cardmogrifier…

About 250 people pledged with this DIY product, some for multiple copies, which enabled us to get the funding to produce all three versions, artwork, the folder, chipboard stiffener for mailing, and shrinkwrap. Since everything was ready to go, all we had to do was order the actual production. We started shipping within a month of the KS campaign ending and finished at the end of another month.

KS takes 10% when all was said and done. We ate the costs of the 'back-end' costs (accounting costs for 4d10 LLC formation, UPC code purchase, bank fees, etc) figuring it would even out over time as we bring out more products.

And yes, we're working on the second DIY card product, which I call the MultiMogrifier, but my buddy doesn't like, and thinking about other products: more card sizes and a couple of board and other games we've created and playtested over the years, but never had the funds to produce or the means to attract a select audience.

For us, KS worked. I know overall it's a crapshoot, and my local newspaper carried a story of at least one person who was prosecuted and convicted for KS fraud, but it can work. Or at least it worked for us.

Then again, we were conservative in that we worked out the production before we launched. I can see how folks who get the money first and then try and figure out how to produce can get hung up.

We're still working out the 4d10 website -- the upload an image and then print works, but we need to be specific about jpg image sizes, and we need more information, instructions etc. We're sorting through the Amazon.com minefield of fulfillment so folks can order it via Amazon.

A work in progress….

I find that games that do not include miniatures get in all sorts of trouble. I don't bid on games alone, had too many bad experiences. I'm also very patient as long as they send it within my lifetime.

I'm also very patient as long as they send it within my lifetime.

Well. I assume that means if they come after your lifetime, you will get upset? :-)

Always nice to find someone who realizes that patience is the main virtue of KS campaigners.

> With rules/games, I am a lot less confident. Until I can read reviews of the finished rules – hopefully based on a few actual games – I really have no way of knowing how good the rules will be. The exception is if the designer has a track record of rules that I liked.

Yep. I'm noticing that more games are being reprinted or revised on KS (Doomtown starts in a month!), so you'll still be spending hundreds of dollars, mini's or no mini's. :D