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"It's 'Unethical' being on TMP?" Topic


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6,155 hits since 28 May 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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NickNorthStar Sponsoring Member of TMP28 May 2017 1:16 p.m. PST

This random email arrived at North Star today:

Principles of War.
I see you are the only stockist I can find of these rules in the UK. My problem is that you still advertise on TMP. The Miniatures Page run by Bill Armintrout. So sorry. I am going to buy from a more ethical supplier.

Why am I unethical for advertising on TMP? Advertising for 15 years BTW.

Nick
link

PS If I'm the only supplier, good luck buying it elsewhere. LOL

Personal logo Dentatus Supporting Member of TMP Fezian28 May 2017 1:28 p.m. PST

"Unethical" Hunh?

"I'm not sure that word means what you think it means." -
Inigo Montoya.

Personal logo jdginaz Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 1:29 p.m. PST

Because your doing something he doesn't like so it's "unethical".

JSchutt28 May 2017 1:31 p.m. PST

Sounds like a troll. A person more interest in who you advertise with than what you sell. I have always found you to be a respected merchant in this community. Give it no more thought than it deserves. Blacklisting is a double-edged sword that should be wielded with great care. Those who advocate such things should be prepared to pay the consequences…. like having no rules to use with an imaginary army.

Mako11 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member28 May 2017 1:36 p.m. PST

LOL.

Another snowflake who will no doubt be melting soon….

Too funny…….

Ragbones Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 1:39 p.m. PST

There appear to be a hardcore group of people who really dislike Bill and it appears that one of them is adopting a strategy designed to hit him/TMP in the wallet. I'm afraid I don't understand that mentality. If I don't like someone or something I just move on with my life. No biggie. But I guess there are those who either derive some perverse pleasure in this type of behavior or have wrapped up their misplaced sense of self-worth in carrying on a 'vendetta' against what is a website for hobbyists. Makes no sense to me.

NickNorthStar Sponsoring Member of TMP28 May 2017 1:39 p.m. PST

The message was graced with a 'delete' not a reply. Thought I'd share my confusion here rather than with them.

GarrisonMiniatures Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member28 May 2017 1:39 p.m. PST

It's a Frothers thing. They have a long-running thread that is basically Anti-Bill and does get quite childish about it.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 1:42 p.m. PST

Welcome to the modern era. If someone has neither a religion nor a core principle, than any behavior they dislike is unethical, because there is no other standard. Somewhere back in the Mesolithic, one of my professors described the condition as "anomie." In the Book of Judges, they say "every man did what was right in his own eyes."

This goes away too.

I would assume your complainant has decided something Bill does is offensive to him, and a boycott of everyone who has commercial dealings with TMP is SO much easier than persuading someone to another view of the matter.

Oh, whoever complained to North Star. Please remember also not to talk to anyone who is a supporting member of TMP, since we also send Bill money. I, for one, would greatly appreciate it.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 1:52 p.m. PST

It's like me boycotting Jerry Pournelle because he was rude to me.
I may have cost him $.35 USD in royalties, but by gum, that's $.35 USD he will never have! grin

Think of all the AWI figure manufacturers I would have to boycott if I agreed with him. And I don't. Sure, Bill and TMP annoy me in occasion, but on the whole I like it here.
I've always felt that all boycotts accomplish is to make the boycotter feel good about themselves. See paragraph 1 above.

If I were to be a music boycotter based on politics, I would only be able to listen to Kid Rock, who I can't stand, and Ted Nugent who gets old after 5 minutes. Why deprive myself of Bonnie Raitt? And I could never watch a movie.

Unethical? Please. Get a life.

BigDan Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 2:05 p.m. PST

I'm the only supplier, good luck buying it elsewhere

Priceless ;)

NickNorthStar Sponsoring Member of TMP28 May 2017 2:08 p.m. PST

Thanks for the word anomie Robert, that was very entertaining. I grinned at this line in Wiki: 'he describes anomie as "derangement"'. I love how one lead flows into another, I got onto Anarcho-Naturism. That is truly bonkers, but was fascinated to read how the CNT, on the eve of the bloody SCW, were voting to support their comrades right to be naked. Very 'Life of Brian'!

Hafen von Schlockenberg Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 2:14 p.m. PST

Was that the Celtiberian Battalion?

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 2:27 p.m. PST

People are nuts. Unethical? That's crazy talk.

Dan

Legion 428 May 2017 2:35 p.m. PST

It's a Frothers thing. They have a long-running thread that is basically Anti-Bill and does get quite childish about it.
Yes, I was surprised to hear of and see such puerile, etc., behavior from supposed adults. On sites about playing with toys basically …(?) …

Of course as I and others have said previously. It's easy to talk "smack" from behind the safety of the internet.

That's crazy talk.
And it seems that is the norm and won't be stopping anytime soon … huh?

Gone Fishing Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 2:38 p.m. PST

To be fair, if this is who I think it is, the guys on Frothers think he's a fool as well. Just saying.

However, I do think that RP's point above has some validity: when people have no established beliefs, nothing grounded in anything but the whims of the current age, ethics can get very strange, very fast.

Legion 428 May 2017 2:52 p.m. PST

To be fair, if this is who I think it is, the guys on Frothers think he's a fool as well.
Who are you referring to ? Principles of War ?

Vigilant28 May 2017 3:13 p.m. PST

I thought that Ethics wath a county in South Eatht England!

VVV reply28 May 2017 3:16 p.m. PST

Anyone here remember an offensive poster (Lord something or other) who was making offensive posts that Bill chose to allow to continue on the grounds of free-speech. Despite the acts mentioned being illegal. Thats when I pulled my advertising.

Dynaman878928 May 2017 3:28 p.m. PST

once again I have to wonder which is worse. The one who complains about advertising here or the many who complain about the one who complains about advertising here.

coopman28 May 2017 3:39 p.m. PST

The new thing is not only to "move on" if you disagree with someone, but to "move on with revenge".

Personal logo War Artisan Sponsoring Member of TMP28 May 2017 3:48 p.m. PST

You're not alone, Nick. I've been excoriated more than once via anonymous email for not being righteous enough to pull my advertising from TMP. I have a hard time working up any respect for the opinions of those who won't even sign their name.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian28 May 2017 3:53 p.m. PST

Anyone here remember an offensive poster (Lord something or other) who was making offensive posts that Bill chose to allow to continue on the grounds of free-speech. Despite the acts mentioned being illegal. Thats when I pulled my advertising.

I remember thinking that you were over-reacting. I think you were reading more into what the other fellow said, than he was actually saying.

wrgmr128 May 2017 3:53 p.m. PST

Nick, just ignore this. You are good people with a good business!

Doug MSC Sponsoring Member of TMP28 May 2017 4:52 p.m. PST

Hahahaha!!!! Don't let it phase you Nick. They that is with us is greater than he that is against us.

doug redshirt28 May 2017 5:35 p.m. PST

I get along just fine by not paying to see a movie with Mel Gibsons or Clint Eastwood names on it for example. I am also sure they are not losing money by me not paying to see their movies. But I sleep better at night keeping my money to myself and spending it on the grandkids instead, who are probably taking it to spend on one of their movies.

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 5:51 p.m. PST

Don't worry Nick
I'll buy more from you
because you are unethical!

rustymusket Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 6:19 p.m. PST

I really don't understand some of the things that happen on TMP about fights with Bill, etc. and I am not looking for an explanation. I go to TMP for help with history or military or miniatures and have been lucky to have some nice members give me the help. I will continue to enjoy TMP with the other members who feel the same and I will continue to use TMP and a place to go when I need a vendor for something to do with the hobby.

I just thought I should put in my 2 cents.

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2017 9:42 p.m. PST

Nick you've got my business, no worries.

VVV reply29 May 2017 12:04 a.m. PST

"I remember thinking that you were over-reacting. I think you were reading more into what the other fellow said, than he was actually saying."
I appreciate that our views differ Bill.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP29 May 2017 3:45 a.m. PST

WRT "ignore this", that has to be pretty easy. "Unethical" with no specifics is pretty easy to explain.

I have no problem with boycotting. I have no problem with politely explaining to a retailer why you are doing it.

I also have little time for people who want to object to something without providing specifics. In my experience, they fall into three categories:

1) Don't actually know what they are talking about.
2) Are afraid to publically state the specifics of their basis.
3) Both of the above.

KPinder29 May 2017 3:46 a.m. PST

A few years ago the younguns embraced a term that had been in use for eons as their mantra for dealing with things they felt beneath them.

I have come to embrace it to address a whole gammut of things I find I just can't bring myself to get worked up over anymore.

NNS, you may want to use it to respond to the critic of your ethics. It goes…

"whatever."

It's like the zen gong of contentment.

NickNorthStar Sponsoring Member of TMP29 May 2017 4:52 a.m. PST

Giving this character their dues, they did sign the email. A quick look through our ordering history showed they'd never bought anything from us.

Someone who'd never spent a penny with us, will never spend a penny with us. Okay. I think we'll survive.

To echo others comments, to be called unethical without any clue to what those ethics are is just nonsense. & to be honest, I don't really want to know. It's not within my ethics to fire off snotty emails to strangers.

korsun0 Supporting Member of TMP29 May 2017 5:07 a.m. PST

Can you work "unethical" into your name somehow and use it as a badge of honour?

NickNorthStar Sponsoring Member of TMP29 May 2017 5:19 a.m. PST

Could do!

Years ago we did a weird world war two range called Projekt X, and we got a message from a chap saying it was an 'abomination' and he'd never buy anything from North Star.

'Projekt X, it's an abomination' was our motto for a while.

cosmicbank29 May 2017 6:25 a.m. PST

"Unethical" I always hated that word because it is defined by the user. And it changes by who, what and when it is Being used. While the big topic of Debate is How Bill runs "His" Business.
If you wish to send advertisers money, or send Bill money that is your right, if you choose not to that is also your right. If you like me spend money with advertisers while not sending Bill money directly, That is also your right.
If you have to depend on what otheres tell you is right or wrong, then you have a bigger problem than TMP.
Thank you for Posting and Hosting this.

Khusrau29 May 2017 6:27 a.m. PST

Boycotts of those whose politics, morality or explicit acts we object to, have a long and honourable history.

The sporting boycott of Apartheid South Africa was very important in demonstrating to ordinary South Africans what world opinion was.

Whether it is merited for TMP and its advertisers is a patter for each individual.

NickNorthStar Sponsoring Member of TMP29 May 2017 7:18 a.m. PST

True. But has it helped their cause? I see little evidence of that here. I certainly won't be cancelling my advertising.

quackstheking29 May 2017 7:30 a.m. PST

Presumably if he knows you still advertise on TMP, he must have visited the site to check!

Pot, kettle, black?!

QTK

Personal logo The Virtual Armchair General Sponsoring Member of TMP29 May 2017 7:36 a.m. PST

"If someone has neither a religion nor a core principle, than any behavior they dislike is unethical, because there is no other standard."

I'm gratified to find another who see's through to the heart of things.

Robert Piepenbbrink--+2!

TVAG

14Bore29 May 2017 9:12 a.m. PST

Who died and made this guy in charge of ethics?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP29 May 2017 10:30 a.m. PST

It's the newest cause.
I'm holding a candlelight vigil later this week for "Ethical Awareness". Bring your own teddy bear.

vicmagpa129 May 2017 10:56 a.m. PST

Ethics is in the ye of the beholder. Who knows what he thinks is ethical. Been in retail 30 years. Funny how people with no self esteem try to gain it through others. GET a JOB! your doing good. it's the 2% who make the most noise.

Personal logo badwargamer Supporting Member of TMP29 May 2017 11:50 a.m. PST

Ethics used to make some great plastic kits. Good to see some being re-released.

NickNorthStar Sponsoring Member of TMP29 May 2017 12:49 p.m. PST

Good point quackstheking.

VVV reply29 May 2017 1:14 p.m. PST

True. But has it helped their cause? I see little evidence of that here.

Well one person has told you why they are not ordering from you. Maybe others simply are not. Certainly if I go to a bad restaurant, I just don't go again. I don't waste my time trying to explain why I will not return.

I can understand the boycott of people who advertise on TMP thats one of the reasons I don't advertise myself. But I did not support the threat of a boycott, trying to get Bill to change his mind. Bill changed his mind anyway, after The Miniatures Page became the 4th highest rated page on Google and not for good reasons.

NickNorthStar Sponsoring Member of TMP29 May 2017 3:16 p.m. PST

Right, so are you saying I should pull my advertising because of sales I don't know I'm losing? For reasons I don't know about?

Brilliant.

My comment was not about losing sales, it was about the support TMP gets.

Norman D Landings Inactive Member29 May 2017 8:58 p.m. PST

How about…

Flash sale – discount code "unethical".

I'd buy.

VVV reply29 May 2017 11:33 p.m. PST

Right, so are you saying I should pull my advertising because of sales I don't know I'm losing? For reasons I don't know about?

No what I am saying is do what you think is right, as I did. If you think advertising on TMP is worth it go for it. But don't assume that everyone who will boycott you (or even most of them) is going to tell you about it. Why would they bother to tell you? But you could always ask the question, do you have some sort of forum and do you know why they are objecting to TMP?
If you don't know why, I suggest you find out.

Personal logo badwargamer Supporting Member of TMP30 May 2017 11:51 a.m. PST

I'd hazard a guess it's to do with the fuss regarding the gender of the editor's that the chief editor hired. Some people get funny about such things. Some people get funny about all sorts of weird things. Doesn't sound like you're losing any real customer from it. Maybe I should buy a set of rules off you and sell it to them at four times the price and split the difference with you…..or is that unethical! :)

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