Grognard66 | 27 May 2017 11:08 a.m. PST |
Anyone played these yet,if so what are your thoughts. G |
CATenWolde | 27 May 2017 1:49 p.m. PST |
I had the good luck to playtest them extensively, albeit after they were about 90% complete. In short, I'm very impressed and pleased. The main improvements over the first edition are the incorporation of the expanded quality and experience modifiers to unit ratings, and the expanded weapon types, from Regimental Fire & Fury. The rules are presented in an even clearer and more attractive way than the first edition, which set the bar for rules at the time (if you have RF&F, it's the same layout and color scheme etc.). If you liked F&F before, then what you liked is still here – the core is the Maneuver table, which has received some tweeks but remains very recognizable (as do the firing and melee systems). I have to think that most of the criticisms one may have had in terms of granularity have been met and more. If you didn't like F&F before, whether you will want to try the new system depends on what bugged you about it. If you wanted more flexibility and granularity, then you should check the new edition out. If it was the core Maneuver check mechanic that bugged you – well, it's still F&F! All in all, a very well crafted and welcome improvement to one of the classic sets of wargame rules. Taken together with RF&F, it provides a clean continuum of rules for playing any level of ACW combat (above the skirmish scale). Cheers, Christopher |
Hannibus | 27 May 2017 4:02 p.m. PST |
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ACWBill | 27 May 2017 5:39 p.m. PST |
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Old Pete | 28 May 2017 12:50 p.m. PST |
Do we really need another F&F rule set ? |
CATenWolde | 28 May 2017 3:26 p.m. PST |
Did you really read my post? |
ACWBill | 28 May 2017 6:27 p.m. PST |
I think I already have the answer to that question. Looks Iike we may have this long awaited volume in our hands by mid-June. |
McLaddie | 29 May 2017 9:12 p.m. PST |
Are the movement rates changed in any way? |
Old Contemptibles | 29 May 2017 11:47 p.m. PST |
I didn't like it to begin with because it was brigade level. Then having played AOE which the local club plays, I really did not like the system. So when FR&F came out, it was the same system and I hear the regiments are really big. If RF&F had came out first then who knows I may be playing it today not knowing any better. But I have to admit a lot of people like F&F. Strange that our local club will use AOE but will not have anything to do with F&F. |
ACWBill | 30 May 2017 3:36 a.m. PST |
There are changes to the movement rates which now include many of the mechanics from the regimental rules including the double quick rate. |
Trajanus | 30 May 2017 4:24 a.m. PST |
Is it safe to assume the Fire Combat (Musketry & Cannonade) table has been changed? That was one of the major beefs with the original, as I recall. Like to know how that has been altered to do away with the 'feast or famine' tendency that drove me and others crackers. |
ACWBill | 30 May 2017 11:12 a.m. PST |
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Trajanus | 31 May 2017 4:07 a.m. PST |
ACWBill, When you say "all new", how much is really just retrofit RF&F. Not keen on effectively owning the same rules twice. |
CATenWolde | 31 May 2017 5:55 a.m. PST |
Every system has been tweaked, in most cases expanding the options and effects, but all the systems are still the same at the core: i.e. the Maneuver check and table is still recognizable, firing is still based on counting up fire factors and applying modifiers, and melee is still based on comparative d10's. You won't be "owning the same rules twice" – the expansions and additions are significant enough to improve play considerably and will effect every aspect of play – but the rules are still F&F. In other words, it's a "legitimate" second edition, not a reprint with minor tweaks. Or is there something more specific you had in mind? |
bgbboogie | 31 May 2017 9:30 a.m. PST |
I have gone back to the old SPI board game rules, they work great in 12mm & there free :) happy days |
doug redshirt | 31 May 2017 11:03 a.m. PST |
Never saw the need to upgrade from "On to Richmond". Tried it once at a convention. Friend marched a division into a town planning on just marching through it. He went in and couldn't get out for the entire game. I lost a battle because Confederate got a plus one for some reason for just being Southern. |
Regulars | 31 May 2017 7:54 p.m. PST |
The original was long out of print so it had to be redrafted for current technology. Rich decided to incorporate some of the Regimential rules updates. As a play tester I have extensively played bothe the original brigade and the regimential variations as well as the new brigade. I see some mechanic improvements to the game but it is still recognizable. Best Joel |
Trajanus | 01 Jun 2017 4:53 a.m. PST |
In other words, it's a "legitimate" second edition, not a reprint with minor tweaks. Or is there something more specific you had in mind? Sorry lack of explanation on my part. I wasn't suggesting it was the old set warmed over ie. much the same as the original I own. Rather that I was wondering is how much RF&F has been added in ie. Avoiding getting a set that's pretty much RF&F where players just call the units Brigades rather than Regiments. Has BF&F got its own identity? |
Stew art | 01 Jun 2017 11:41 a.m. PST |
looking forward to these rules very much! I missed the original getting late into ACW, but have been really enjoying RFF. |
ACWBill | 05 Jun 2017 10:25 a.m. PST |
Rather than going back and forth on the many questions that have come up here, I thought I would post a link to the Fire & Fury site where most of these questions are covered. link Thanks, B |
dantheman | 11 Jun 2017 3:40 p.m. PST |
Played the 2nd edition for the first time this weekend. Definite improvement in my opinion. Most noticeable are more detail on weapon types, and they are a bit bloodier, so the game went faster. Will probably purchase the new rules. |
McLaddie | 12 Jun 2017 8:03 a.m. PST |
It would seem from reading the product description, a brigade could be have a 'crack' experience level, but be graded 'unreliable' or 'green' but 'spirited.' Is that the way it could work? |
CATenWolde | 13 Jun 2017 5:57 a.m. PST |
In essence yes. A brigade can be rated for "Effectiveness" as Spirited, Reliable, Unreliable, or Dispirited (I have to admit that, as a Napoleonic gamer, I think of this as Morale). These categories provide the base loss progression that in turn indicated when a brigade is degraded from Fresh to Worn and then Spent. So, for instance, a typical 8 stand brigade, if Reliable, would become Worn after losing 2 bases, and Spent after losing 4. Those numbers improve to 3 and 5 if Spirited, and decrease to 1 and 2 if Unreliable. Those plateaus are major modifiers to the Maneuver Check table, and having lots of Worn, and especially Spent, brigades will eventually put an end to any force as they decrease in effectiveness or flee – so adjustments of even 1 base are a bigger deal than they may seem. Brigades can also be rated for Combat Experience as Green, Experienced, Veteran, or Crack. These effect the Maneuver, Fire, and Charge tables to different degrees, as you would expect. Brigades can also be given an Exceptional Brigade Commander, which is a bonus until he dies, just as in the first edition. Putting all of these things together provides a lot of flexibility in unit ratings. Spirited Green brigades are much different than Reliable Veteran brigades, as you would expect, but you can also make interesting combinations like Dispirited Crack brigades … Since the choice of weaponry is likewise expanded, OB's can really be works of art (which is why I'm eagerly awaiting the new scenario books). Cheers, Christopher |
Stew art | 15 Jun 2017 9:33 a.m. PST |
got my copy in the mail! it looks excellent! |
Cleburne1863 | 15 Jun 2017 2:43 p.m. PST |
Hmm. Maybe I'll do a brigade scenario book someday. Brigade level rules for the Atlanta Campaing. That way I could include battles that were out of the scope of the regimental books, like Kolb Farm and all of Peachtree Creek. |
CATenWolde | 18 Jun 2017 8:48 a.m. PST |
I think that would be a great idea! I know Rich and Bill Moreno are working on a plan to revise and expand the old scenario books, so why not drop them a line and find out what they are up to? |