"Useless Redcoats?!" Topic

Someone was just telling me the story of the TV series 'Black Sails' and it seems that once again a crowd (or is it shower) of individualistic 'heroes' trounced a force of British redcoats. It made me wonder.

Apart from the Sharpe TV series and perhaps 'Zulu', can anyone think of a film or TV programme where the redcoats are the proper heroes not either out and out villains (e.g. 'The Patriot') nor incompetent, stiff-necked fools (e.g. 'The last of the Mohicans')? I am hard put to do so.

Based upon the small and large screen, you cannot help wonder how the British Empire grew on land in the 18th and 19th Centuries. (Strangely enough, the Royal Navy seem to do much better.)

Tales of the 77th Bengal Lancers.

(Arguably) The Adventures of Sir Francis Drake.

(Big Screen) Cromwell.

Napoleonic action in the film "Waterloo"

It reminds me of a scene in a tv version of Spartacus.
Peasants in loincloths routed a "cohort" of 10 Roman legionaries. They were armed with milking stools and hoes.

It's a common tv or movie meme. Heroic untrained unarmed etc are better than trained troops. In fact it was ingrained in the British and American mind for ages, the superiority of militias vs the perfidy of a standing army.
Besides, audiences love it. And it's cheap.
You aren't one of THOSE people who expects accuracy on tv are you?

Heaven forfend but…….. just once, just once.

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom?

Redcoats and Imperial stormtroopers get the same bad rap!
Never mind!

The redcoats received a fairly balanced portrayal in "Barry Lyndon." They certainly maintained their proverbial "stiff upper lip" while advancing against the French infantry.

Seemed a more favorable portrayal than that of Barry's experience in Prussian service.

…and yet…..and yet…. who won that there American War of Independence? And did not Spartacus' army defeat multiple Roman armies before finally losing?

And did not the French , British, Americans, Dutch and Portugese all get their butts kicked at one time or another by their erstwhile colonials?

A determined, albeit ill trained and equipped, local insurrection will very often wear down the finest (expensive) militaries.

Finally, what's wrong with the colonial masters being portrayed as baddies in film/TV?

and yet…..and yet…. who won that there American War of Independence

France……

Rupert- LOL. Perhaps. But who did the hard work of getting them involved?

Okay, just like the US Army in Vietnam, the redcoats won plenty of battles but lost the war and the USA became independent. But what about elsewhere? A lot of wars were actually won and I do not just mean in Spain and Belgium. And it is not just American films that give Thomas Atkins a poor showing, British films and TV are just as bad. So, for all his faults etc, and no one knows his weaknesses better then yours truly, is there nothing out there in which we can cheer the lobster backs other than the few mentions already given?

North West Frontier
Soldiers Three
Wee Willie Winkie (seriously)
Four Feathers (parts of it)

Crazy leaders don't help win wars more so than red coats

Ever since Cromwell, the British have had an uncomfortable feeling about standing armies. It's in your DNA. Americans too. One (many) of the clauses in our Declaration of Independence had to do with standing armies. They are instruments of tyranny. So we believe.
"It's Tommy this and Tommy that…"
Why do you think there's a Royal Navy and a Royal Air Firce, but NOT a Royal Army?

And that shows in our movies and tv shows. The Russians have no such qualms, and it shows in the many patriotic movies Russians produce.

Zulu. Enough said.

That one scene in the extended version of last of the mohecans were British grenadiers best off some French.
Sadly in the rest of the movie the redcoats are more useless than drunk storm troopers

As always, it goes back to Cromwell.

55 days at Peking, even if they were Marines.

Lot of it has to do with leadership, or lack thereof :0

Master And Commander. The marines in it aren't useless.

The Marine officer shoots the ships surgeon because he was being careless with a musket. But other than that they come off pretty good.

Gunga Din
Zulu
Four Feathers
The Lives of a Bengal Lancer
The Drum
The Brigand of Kandahar
Drums
Khartoum
Bengal Brigade
The Three Sergeants of Bengal
Northwest Frontier

Little wonder people are leaving this Forum in droves. For our erstwhile Colonial colleagues, you're speaking and (very occasionally) writing English rather than French, Spanish, German . . . . so those useless redcoats can't have been that useless?

We are talking about movies.

There seems to be a lack of movies of the Marlborian era.
There would be lots of red lines in there!

Only I've seen is a very short scenes in one of the movies about Winston Churchill. As far as I know that's the only one that shows anything from the Spanish succession.

Sigh!!!

I buy you books to read and you eat them.

Listen to Winston. We're talking about movies. It has nothing to do with history. It's what the film companies
think will put butts in seats, not knowledge in minds.

It has nothing to do with history, it has to do with simple fairy tales people play out in their minds. Don't challenge them, tell tem what they already think. If you try and educate them it's like trying to make a pig walk on two legs. They can't do it very well and it pisses off the pig.

A friend of mine once noted to his wife and his female cousin that "Midway" was a horrible movie. Yet if you took out every scene, line, and character relating to the stupid romance between John Boy gone to war and the Nisei girl, it was a good movie. He was immediately assailed by his female relatives who thought it was the best part of the movie, and who disliked "Tora, Tora, Tora" was a terrible movie because it had no "personal side." Film companies always want something to bring the females in.

@Ottoathome

So true.

They even put a love story into Sink The Bismark! (And that was not a Hollywood movie)

Many movies don't like to invest valuable screen time in character development. Instead they rely on stock characters that most viewers can easily pick up on with a few details provided. One common theme is the brave, resourceful and innovative hero overcoming his incompetent leaders or companions to defeat the evil opposition. This is where books have an advantage over movies. In Drums Along the Mohawk Gil Martin is brave and resourceful, but so are many of his companions and the leaders he works with. His Indian companion comes across well and even his Loyalist neighbor is a sympathetic character.

If you want the British to come across as brave and resourceful you need to have a British hero. Hornblower and Master and Commander have this.