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"Artillery equipment colors for French minor allies" Topic


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871 hits since 20 May 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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tvlamb20 May 2017 6:24 a.m. PST

Berg, Baden, Hesse-Darmstadt and Poland (Duchy of Warsaw) were all supplied by the French; were their gun carriages, caissons, etc. French artillery green or some other color(s). I'm looking for info for each of the above – I've got the uniforms but not the equipment.
Many thanks.

Personal logo Artilleryman Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2017 6:39 a.m. PST

According to Dawson, Dawson and Summerfield, the colours were:

Berg – Stained wood.
Baden – Grey or dark grey.
Hesse-Darmstadt – Mid-blue.
Poland (Duchy of Warsaw)-Blue-grey.

Hope that helps.

tvlamb20 May 2017 1:16 p.m. PST

Great information; thank you. May have to buy the book, now.

I assume black metal work with the wood paintedthe colors above.

Personal logo Artilleryman Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2017 3:16 p.m. PST

It varied from nation to nation. The same source gives the following:

Berg – Stained wood. Bronze fittings.
Baden – Grey or dark grey. Black fittings.
Hesse-Darmstadt – Mid-blue. Black fittings.
Poland (Duchy of Warsaw)-Blue-grey. Black fittings.

tvlamb21 May 2017 5:09 a.m. PST

Thanks again. Bought the book. Seema like a great source I'll need as I expand my forces.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2017 8:43 a.m. PST

Would love to hear how folk feel about Duchy of Warsaw dismissed as a French Minor Ally!

D,D and S is a book I value, but it does have its critics, as often discussed here and, certainly, some odd ideas about canister fire and how it worked.

Tyler32623 May 2017 6:07 p.m. PST

Try this link . It was very helpful for me.

link

Just copy and paste.

von Winterfeldt23 May 2017 10:38 p.m. PST

the information in the link is not always correct, Saxon artillery – had their own Saxon equipment – was black and not dark grey, Brunswick artillery – in case I remember correctly obtained French guns in 1813/14 which most likley retained their French colours.
Bavaria had their own artillery material – along with donated Austrian guns (Kavalleriegeschütz in 1806 / 07 campaign as well.

French guns could be grey as well, at least still seen in 1809 as grey along the usual green.

@deadhead
you mean one critic, the one and only who seemingly has the illusion that his opinons are facts???

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP25 May 2017 2:36 a.m. PST

I do mean he who must not be named.

To be fair, he did send me a long list of errors in the book. I printed it and rechecked last night. Some are minor, some are indeed matters of opinion, but most do seem to have a very convincing case to make. The canister especially, never understood that. The "obsolete" dolphins….etc

I wish he would have published it, but he was perhaps wiser not to stir up more ire!

Major Bloodnok25 May 2017 3:09 a.m. PST

If I understand correctly weren't the Baden 6pdrs replaced by French 4pdrs when they entered Spain?

Tyler32608 Jun 2017 12:43 p.m. PST

Check out this link. It is a great resource for artillery colors :

link

von Winterfeldt11 Jun 2017 4:45 a.m. PST

"

Check out this link. It is a great resource for artillery colors :

link"

which in fact it isn't – full of errors

Le Breton14 Jun 2017 2:30 p.m. PST

The list's "apple green" for Russians (somewhat French allied-ish in 1809) is better than the "dark green" sometimes seen (dark like the uniform coats – this color went into use later, post 1820).

It was a true green, not an olive made from ochre+black. I think they used verdigris. Anyway, the paint was a mid-light green, with a satin finish. The forumla is known, and it has been remade as per the era.

Like this when fresh :

picture

Over time it oxidized to be lighter, more matt and looking a bit more toward yellow-gray.

Like this :

picture

Marc at work15 Jun 2017 9:53 p.m. PST

Oh crikey, my interpretation of apple green was a lot more vivid than that, based on the name and a half remembered Peter Gilder picture. But great photo, thanks

Marc

Le Breton16 Jun 2017 3:18 a.m. PST

Marc,

Happy to help.

I have seen the two pieces in the photos in life – the colors on my monitor look as I recall them.

The "bright apple" green is probably an OK shade, especially for highlights and allowing for scale effect (and it looks distinctive) – if so motivated, you can just tone it down with a dark wash – and it will look more "3D" as well as more aligned to what how the color most likely looked in life.

As long as you are not in the "ochre"/"olve" green color palette and not in dark "forest" greens, I think you are getting the "look" right.

Tyler32618 Jun 2017 3:25 p.m. PST

Von winterfeldt- sorry to bust your bubble of expertise , but many countries used what ever guns they were able to get their hands on and many French allies used French made guns along with some of their own. As to color.. that is speculative at best if you read a bit more into different sources. There is so much conjecture that it is open interpretation. Like trying to make an argument for what color French blue was. Colors faded and equipment varied.

Supercilius Maximus20 Jun 2017 3:29 a.m. PST

Savoy-Piedmont?

von Winterfeldt20 Jun 2017 4:03 a.m. PST

@Tyler326

On general I am not that much disagreeing, but in case you are such an expert, tell me the amount of French guns in Bavarian service? Tell me the maount of French guns in Saxon service?

Everything of the past is speculative – but one is able to narrow down this speculation to a good working thesis.

I know about the Austrian guns in Bavarian service (at least for two campaings, most likley still in Austrian colour, as well as the numerous Austrain, Hannoverian and Prussian guns in French service.

in case you like to trus the information of the link you provided blindly, it is your choice, I don't trust it at all.

Tyler32621 Jun 2017 5:11 a.m. PST

VON W> Most people play games with their little guys. My point is you( meaning some people) can get very anal when trying to research and get colors , equipment down to specifics. Too many variables( books by experts, etc) . People should paint their figures to the best they can without having their head explode on research( info overload). I am sure most people have went thru this and found that to be the case. Who cares about the mount of French guns in Bavarian service? Does anyone really use that fact when playing games? Most don't I would wager. But if you do and have the time, then that is good for you.

Le Breton21 Jun 2017 9:36 a.m. PST

"Who cares about the mount of French guns in Bavarian service"
Well, if I decided to do models of French VIe corps in 1812, that might be about my third question or topic of research. But I play skirmish, and large scale figures show such differences that might be lost in smaller scales.
And I admit, I like the history part of the hobby as much as the gaming part. I would like the painting part as much also, except that I really can't paint for s---.
:-)

And Baden 6pdrs replaced by French 4pdrs is a change in the weapon itself, which may well have direct game consequences even if painted in mauve and chartreuse stripes with lavender metalwork

====================

Savoy-Piedmont? Ouch, that's not so easy. Maybe Dr. Summerfield will read this and answer. Something makes we want to say varnished over natural wood and metal, but I can't find a reference and it could be just an impression from museum exhibits.

Supercilius Maximus23 Jun 2017 1:53 a.m. PST

I've just learned (from someone at Kronoskaf sending me photos of museum pieces) that their gun carriages were "Savoy blue" in 1706, and – I suspect – probably before that as well, back to the 1680s maybe earlier, and also forward to at least the mid-1700s.

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