"The Afghan Hill Fort: A Daunting Project" Topic
20 Posts
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Smokey Roan | 15 May 2017 1:44 p.m. PST |
I make lots of forts. Egypt/Sudan, Darkest Africa, Ashantiland coastal forts, Old Mexico, sci fi, et al. To me, the Afghan Hill Fort is the toughest project. Hard to design, you dont want a generic, square structure on a raised but level mountain terrain base. That means varied levels of foundation. Playability? You want it as small as possible, BUT with room for figures inside, and attackers to blow the gates and rush in so you need interior floorspace. You must conceptualize how you want it defended. Units defending "zones", also incorporating the attackers (attacking units in a zone, vs defending units in said). Most hill forts are gonna have high walls, so you must figure in the design some weakness, a damaged zone for example, or a zone where the terrain gives the attackers an advantage. Construction? Building the fort "into" the rocky base is challenge. walls and buildings rise and fall with the terrain elevation. Mostly, we are talking stone or mud brick with varying degrees of adobe finish. LOTS of damage, lots of evidence of repairs are needed. Earthquakes, battles, age, etc means a very heavily weathered fort. Almost too complicated for standard foam board and spackle. Easy to make sections of a structure damaged and missing adobe, showing the brickwork, for Egypt, Sudan, etc, but very hard to make most of a wall or building exposed stone work. Also, the towers, bastions, buildings and walls should not have standard angles. No straight sides, 90 degree corners, perfect vertical sides, etc. Hard to do with foamboard. That said, I think I have an idear.
Pink/blue foam is the ideal material, for the base and the structure, as it can be carved, embossed, sanded cut, etc to produce extreme detail. But, even 1/2 inch foam is too thick for most 15mm towers and buildings. Carve buildings and such from thick blocks of the stuff! In 15mm, its not hard. A hack saw blade held in hand can hollow out a 4x4 chunk of foam building, to 1/4" thick sides. This solves many problems, mainly the stone work construction and asymmetrical style. I tried carving 10mm adobe buildings in 10mm from 1" thick pink foam, and it worked BEAUTIFUL! So detailed, so quick, so easy. Now the issue: Finding sheets of 4-6" thick pink foam. I think we can get it from boat builders! I found chunks of 3" pink foam outside a local boat maker. They use it not only as flotation inside the fiberglass body, but also as the frame (boats are made by spaying fiberglass onto a pink foam frame that is contoured in a massive rubber mold)
The chunk I found, to my dismay, after carrying it under my arm, had a light layer of fiberglass sprayed on one side. Itchy! Look at gaming Afghan Forts. A few are just superb. Most are just OK at best, and not things of beauty. I think thick pink foam is the answer?
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raylev3 | 15 May 2017 2:09 p.m. PST |
When I PCS'd from the UK to Germany, a wargaming buddy gave me a scratch built Afghan hill fort as a going away present. Since he gave it to me as I left I drove across France and Belgium with it in my front passenger seat. When I drove onto my new base in Germany, the MP gate guard, an Afghan veteran, saw it and asked what it was. I told him it was an Afghan hill fort. He said…"No it's not. There's not enough holes in it." I had to laugh. |
timmmy | 15 May 2017 2:46 p.m. PST |
Have you seen this fort? link |
timmmy | 15 May 2017 2:47 p.m. PST |
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Wackmole9 | 15 May 2017 3:23 p.m. PST |
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Cacique Caribe | 15 May 2017 3:33 p.m. PST |
Smokey, Is this the kind of multi-level terrain piece you're thinking of, but done with more playable space within the walled sections? I would have built them with removable roofs also.
auction auction It reminds me a little if this actual photo:
linkI would start off by building the main upright walls first, and then adding contoured foam or cork pieces on the lower portions, to simulate that the structure is coming out of rock. But I guess in a way it would be. :) I like part of this look also, though I would stick with lighter and less warping materials: TMP link Dan PS. Here are some other interesting suggestions: TMP link |
Cacique Caribe | 15 May 2017 3:56 p.m. PST |
Then again, for centuries to this day there have been lots of flat, level, square compounds in that part of the world too: TMP link Dan |
Dan Beattie | 15 May 2017 3:56 p.m. PST |
My Afghan fort. Contact me if you want to buy it. i will send pictures. danbeattie01atgmaildotcom /Users/danbeattie/Desktop/IMG_5074.JPG |
Mad Guru | 15 May 2017 4:06 p.m. PST |
Smokey, Whatever you end up doing, I hope we get to see some pics when you're done! Wackmole9 already posted a link to my own recent contribution to the Afghan hillfort genre, which I have to say I am very proud of. I agree, in some ways it's a tough one, since you want it to look like it's been there for a long time, and been damaged and then repaired more than once, kind of like a later Medieval fortress, which sufffered battle damage and routine wear & tear, and was maintained and repaired with various different materials from the original construction. But saying all that, I'm not sure I agree with your choice of carving the whole thing out of one single block of high quality pink or blue foam being the best solution. Of course, if it's the best solution for you then go to it, but for myself, I think thin pieces which you can curve and angle and manipulate however you see fit are also a good method of construction. I Built my hillfort out of cheap foamcore, strengthened it with beams and pillars of bass wood, added a few patches of model RR commercial brickwork, buttresses from more bass wood and doors from balsa, with dollhouse hinges; then covered everything with Elmers wood filler. I think the most difficult part was blending it into my pre-existing hill, but if you are building the hill from scratch together with the fort, it should be much easier. Here's just a few pics of my version, at different points along the way and then as a finished piece:
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nevinsrip | 15 May 2017 10:39 p.m. PST |
Didn't Ian Weekly do an Afgan Hill Fort in his book on Terrain? Pretty sure he did. |
sjwalker38 | 16 May 2017 1:32 a.m. PST |
Colonial Steamboat Company does some very nice 28mm Afghan/NWF forts |
Mad Guru | 16 May 2017 2:48 a.m. PST |
Wow, sjwalker, thanks for mentioning them! I think I had seen their adobe buildings web page, but I didn't know they sold hill forts and "Hilltop Villages." I just went to have a look, and have to say, they look very good! Not inexpensive but not over-priced either in my humble opinion…
Smokey, I'd say it's worth a visit to have a look for inspiration sake, LINK: colonialsteamboat.co.uk @nevinsrip: he certainly did, and they were some of the very talented Mr. Weekly's very best models, IMHO:
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Kevin C | 16 May 2017 6:20 a.m. PST |
Since you normally use 15mm (18mm) figures, I think you will find that these will work well for you: link |
Smokey Roan | 16 May 2017 8:58 a.m. PST |
Just wow! Really nice stuff |
nevinsrip | 16 May 2017 11:59 a.m. PST |
Smokey, see if you can find a copy of Weekly's book. Well worth it. |
Smokey Roan | 16 May 2017 12:34 p.m. PST |
My issue, and its CERTAINLY not regarding the quality of the models shown here (I m thoroughly impressed) is that they are too formidable. Aint no TSATF units that are gonna scale those walls. |
Mad Guru | 16 May 2017 5:17 p.m. PST |
Smokey: Besides their Hill Forts, Colonial Steamboat Company also has more modest "Large" and "Small" Watch Towers:
These might be more appropriate for what you're looking for. Honestly, my own scratchbuilt contribution up above is not that big or imposing or impossible-to-assault of a structure, at least IMHO. It's true, a single 20-fig TSATF basic unit might have a tough time, but it would really depend on the number of figures defending the structure, the size of the garrison. Perhaps a more reasonable size attacking force would be a TSATF company of 40 or 42 figures, hopefully with a Mountain Gun to back them up, versus 6-12 or at very most 20 defenders? With just 20 figures attacking, the garrison would have to be small to afford the attack any chance of success. Most records of Anglo-Indian attacks on such tribal strongholds which I have read wound up relying principally on screw-guns and/or explosive charges to carry the day, sometimes combined with close assaults. |
alan L | 17 May 2017 8:03 a.m. PST |
All very interesting. However, your typical NW Frontier chieftan's fort would look nothing like the Weekley model, nice as it is for some other setting: perhaps the Afghan Emir? The single tower and perhaps one bilding on top of a crag would look more in place. For a wonderful array of native and imperial forts, go to Khyber.org and search forts. The Boer War fort would be ideal as an imperial outpost to be besieged and hold out for relief. If you are particularly interested in The Grim, we do have a NW Frontier Yahoo Group. Alan |
Toaster | 17 May 2017 1:42 p.m. PST |
Terrain thralls website used to have plans for a very large fort before it went down. Here is mine in the middle of a game of Infinity. [URL=http://s184.photobucket.com/user/toaster5sqn/media/Portfolio/Desert%20Fortress_zpsed3znicg.jpg.html]
[/URL] You may be able to track down the plans on the wayback machine or someone may have saved them, unfortunately I didn't. Robert |
sjwalker38 | 18 May 2017 12:30 p.m. PST |
If you want something smaller, take a look at the Chitral watch tower made by mrelliottski on EBay. Mike makes some great colonial stuff and is very reliable. auction |
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