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"Let's Get Weasel Out Of The Dawghouse!" Topic


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4,877 hits since 15 May 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 1:25 p.m. PST

What the topic says.

Personal logo Tacitus Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 1:28 p.m. PST

I've got a spoon.

Hafen von Schlockenberg Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 1:32 p.m. PST

Bet some Nazis could get him out.

RetroBoom15 May 2017 1:53 p.m. PST

what happened?

marcus arilius Inactive Member15 May 2017 2:17 p.m. PST
Warmaster Horus Inactive Member15 May 2017 2:31 p.m. PST

Damn nazi talk will git ya every time

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 2:47 p.m. PST

Sure. What could possibly go wrong?

Personal logo Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 2:49 p.m. PST

My logic goes like this: I consider Weasel my friend. I do not always agree with what he says, but I am going to pick his side. Thus, it doesn't matter what he said, I would like to see him freed.

Rod I Robertson Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member15 May 2017 3:03 p.m. PST

The forum rule says you cannot call someone a Nazi. Weasel never did. Rather he posted an historical photo showing the types of atrocities committed by fanatical Germans during WWII to illustrate the implications of another forum poster's unwise recommendations on how to deal with modern day terrorists. This is a miscarriage of justice due to a bad call by the Editor in Chief. Hopefully he will review his decision and set things right.

Rod Robertson.

lloydthegamer Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 3:38 p.m. PST

Having just read the thread I'm stunned that Legion isn't the one DH. Nothing I read in Weasel's comments indicate a need to be disciplined. Legion on the other hand…..

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 4:03 p.m. PST

The editor blew the call again. No surprise there.

JMcCarroll15 May 2017 4:04 p.m. PST

P C

Just Jack Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member15 May 2017 5:10 p.m. PST

First, let me go on record as saying I can't stand the guy ;)

Second, if my friends break the rules, they should go to the dawg house just like everyone else.

Third, calling someone, even alluding to someone being a Nazi should be dawg-houseable.

Last and most importantly, Ivan did no such thing and should be let out. Someone says 'having Nazis on our side wouldn't be so bad,' someone else posts pics of the heinous Bleeped text Nazis did. How is that calling someone a Nazi???

Come on, Mr Editor, this could be fixed with very little effort.

V/R,
Jack

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 7:31 p.m. PST

Well, I DO like the guy. Heaven help me… grin

It seems that espousing Nazi beliefs is ok.
But calling someone on it is not.
There are those who say TMP is not consistent…

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 7:35 p.m. PST

I still can't find where Weasel called anyone on TMP a Nazi.

Dan

TGerritsen Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 9:41 p.m. PST

Reading that thread made me think of this…

picture

fullerena16 May 2017 1:38 a.m. PST

Free Weasel, make fun of people who fetishise the SS for being Ruthlessly Competent Hard Men making Ruthlessly Competent Hard Decisions that were Regrettable but Hard, especially when they start ranting about the SJWs when called on it. I mean, christ, Editor. If you have to temp-ban someone in that thread, you clearly hit the wrong guy.

pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP16 May 2017 3:15 a.m. PST

Concur. Free Weasel. And to be clear, WW2 between Nazis and Communists was Malicious Evil vs Ruthless Incompetency!

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP16 May 2017 5:21 a.m. PST

Has anyone EVER had a dawghousing reversed? Seems it would take a big man to admit he made a mistake and publicly act accordingly.

sjwalker38 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member16 May 2017 5:29 a.m. PST

+1 almost everyone here

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP16 May 2017 5:41 a.m. PST

One of the most idiotic DH'ings I've seen here, and it's up against some stiff competition!

Legion 416 May 2017 6:46 a.m. PST

Hey, I reported his post and told him. He was off base and insulting to think/alluding I was saying things that would make me a Nazi.

The forum rule says you cannot call someone a Nazi. Weasel never did. Rather he posted an historical photo showing the types of atrocities committed by fanatical Germans during WWII to illustrate the implications of another forum poster's unwise recommendations on how to deal with modern day terrorists.
Rod you post the same worn out arguments whenever I say something about being more aggressive, etc. when fighting terrorists.

And NOTE: I never mention the locations or religion of those terrorists. Some say that makes me a bigot if I do. No it only makes me someone who accurately describes a ruthless enemy. Just as we did in WWII, Korea, SE Asia, and the WoT.

And yes, I was the "unwise poster" if someone does not get that. My posts were based on a simulation of the Nazis fighting Deash/AQ, etc. Read my posts. Nothing was said about genocide etc. Which as we know both the Nazis and Deash are guilty of. But again when I played AH's SL with a scenario of the SS vs. a Russian Guard unit. I'm not talking about the actions of either other than on the battlefield/game board

Your problem Rod and some others is IMO. That you can't see the forests for the trees. You mix my intent with the non-combatants who share a similar linage and religion with the terrorists.
Again the "arrogant" SJW, intellectual academic P.C. types. AS soon as you say we have to get more aggressive with the terrorism. Immediately think I'm talking about genocide. I'm not … I'm talking about fighting a ruthless brutal enemy more efficiently and effectively. Which I have said on many other posts.

I can't go to the original thread as it was moved to the UM boards. Because I was designated a "bigot" against a ruthless enemy. Because guys like Rod and Weasel who can't understand my concepts of fighting the enemy. As I was trained and taught as an Infantry officer. And you types study history and play wargames ?!?

And not targeting the civilians they hide and move along with. And even use them as human shields and hostages. And yes for the millionth time … WE All understand about the unfortunate CD situation. But I've addressed that so frequently most here could quote me without looking. I've said all this again on the original post and others. Which I can't see or reference. Because of my take on fighting terrorist … effectively & efficiently … And following the GC, etc., which the US and much of the West does 99% of the time.

However in my "simulation", what would happen if a squad of Nazis/SS got into a firefight with Daesh/AQ/BH/AS, etc. terrorists ? And my contention remains the same … the Nazis/SS would win. But I'm no where advocating the West should commit the crimes the Nazis and the terrorist did and do.

Rod and Weasel I see you both as being so wedded to your "beliefs" and biased against me. None of you can see the reality of the context of my posts.

We all know people who share the same linage and basic religious beliefs as the terrorists. And again don't try to explain to me about guerilla/insurgent warfare.

fullerene reread my post … but maybe you think the same some others do. And don't you dare play a game with the Nazis/SS fighting the Russians of you'll be call someone who sympathizes with the Reich. Geez !

And I had a 1/2 Japanese girlfriend in the Army. So don't any of you say anything about fighting the IJFs of WWII. Or I'll call you a bigot and that you want to kill my "girl" and her family. Geez ! Do some of you see the moronic basis of your PC, SJW arguments ? I guess not.

And Weasel only got 3 days. He'll be out before Bill reads this thread …

fullerena16 May 2017 6:57 a.m. PST

So what, specifically, are you talking about that makes the SS more hardcore and gritty and super-effective? What should be learned from them? Specifically? You're even saying we should imitate them for anti-terrorist work so, what, take inspiration from their anti-partisan work? Because that's the closest analogy. Specifically, what is it that they can teach us? Don't just hand wave and say "all the things except the atrocities," actually have the courage to state what your argument is.

This isn't the thread for it, but hell, you're back talking about how they're totally what we need.

You can call me a degenerate SJW if you like, I won't mind.

If your argument is simply "we should fully mobilise and go to total war against them" then there's still nothing there that having more Nazis would help with, especially the SS. That's well within the capabilities of modern non-Nazi militaries. Being Nazis would probably make that less effective, not more.

Legion 416 May 2017 7:09 a.m. PST

I've stated my argument … you are to blinded by some SJW PC "things", etc.

WE know how efficiently and effectively the Germans were in the early parts of the war. They understood about how well to use Infantry, MGs, FA, Panzers and CAS. At least that is what I was taught at the US ARMY Infantry school. They showed how effectively the combined arms concept worked. And in 1940 they were really the only ones to practice that … effectively and efficiently …

I Said noting about atrocities. We discussed those in other classes at the Infantry School. And we know what war crimes are. And how to stop them before they start. Or Try … nothing is 100% …

And they are not totally what we need, you said that … I didn't But my contention is still WE could fight the WoT more efficiently and effectively.

Many in the military agree. Too often the restrictive ROE makes defeating the terrorists more difficult that it already is. And no where in the ROE does it say purposely kill non-combatants.

You can call me a degenerate SJW if you like, I won't mind.
Don't be so dramatic … you sound like some of the others here … We need a Drama Queen icon on TMP …

fullerena16 May 2017 7:17 a.m. PST

Edit: This really is the wrong thread for it, and the wrong forum.

Legion 416 May 2017 7:21 a.m. PST

Having just read the thread I'm stunned that Legion isn't the one DH. Nothing I read in Weasel's comments indicate a need to be disciplined. Legion on the other hand…..
I've said nothing to be DH'd. I set up a scenario about the Nazis/SS fighting Deash/AQ … Just like some others have in another media ran simulations e.g. the SS vs. the VC, the IRA vs. AQ types, etc. AND my Father fought the Germans in France in WWII. Was WIA'd. I certainly don't advocate any Nazi dogma.

But I do advocate the study of past conflicts to understand and learn. From the dynamics of small unit actions, etc. You and others don't ? Not a very good student of history I'd think. Deleted by Moderator

Legion 416 May 2017 7:27 a.m. PST

But the modern militaries we already have know how to fight a combined arms war. They actually do a better job of it than Nazis.
Really … gee the Infantry school didn't teach use that !?!? huh? And yes, I know all about doing a better job when using combined arms. I've commanded Mech Company Tms. You ?

As for ROEs and anti-terrorism work, the SS weren't exactly good at dealing with partisans. They certainly were eager and relentlessly brutal, but the kill counts look worse when you only count the armed ones and don't give them two credits for pregnant women. Tended to be counterproductive in the end, too. Very good at making the entire population hate them and their country, and justifying that hatred.
We know all this. I'm again talking about their actions on a small unit level. Read what I posted.
And I do admit … I hate the terrorist … You ?

Please reread your post and find where exactly you suggest something that Nazis would help with? How would they make fighting terrorists more effective and efficient? You have to actually state your argument rather than just waving your hands and asserting that Nazis, like Friendship, are Magic.
Please … here you are being dramatic again … Again running a simulation where the Nazis fight Deash/AQ types is not advocating being a Nazi.

fullerena16 May 2017 7:34 a.m. PST

I have commanded a cat. I wasn't very good at it, even by cat-commander standards.

But what makes 1940s Wehrmacht and SS small-unit tactics more effective? The US Army, at least, has had plenty of practice in the past 70 years. Even had looser ROEs.

Edit: In the interests of accuracy, I don't think Legion 4 is actually a Nazi.

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP16 May 2017 7:35 a.m. PST

Deleted by Moderator I have no regrets.

Legion 416 May 2017 7:37 a.m. PST

WW2 between Nazis and Communists was Malicious Evil vs Ruthless Incompetency!
Not at the small unit level especially in the early parts of the war. The Communists on the other hand were generally more concerned about numbers than tactics many times.

Has anyone EVER had a dawghousing reversed? Seems it would take a big man to admit he made a mistake and publicly act accordingly.
Why would I admit I did something wrong ? I claimed it would be interesting to set up a scenario with a squad of SS vs. a squad of Daesh/AQ ? In my study and training the early war Germans were pretty effective at small unit tactics, etc. Deash/AQ IMO … not so much … IMO …

Legion 4 is clearly a Nazi. I have no regrets.
Geez !

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP16 May 2017 7:41 a.m. PST

The editor did something wrong. He would rescind it not you. YOU are not in charge of the dawghhouse. Deleted by Moderator

Legion 416 May 2017 7:41 a.m. PST

I have commanded a cat. I wasn't very good at it, even by cat-commander standards.
Why does that not surprise me ?

But what makes 1940s Wehrmacht and SS small-unit tactics more effective? The US Army, at least, has had plenty of practice in the past 70 years. Even had looser ROEs.
Been there studied all that … and probably in more detail and better than you …

Legion 416 May 2017 7:43 a.m. PST

The editor did something wrong. He would rescind it not you. YOU are not in charge of the dawghhouse. Classic delusions of power and self importance…
I did nothing wrong … you may want to rethink about delusions, and self-importance …

And I've been in the DH many times … I know very well how it works … I don't think you do though. Bases on some of you posts to me …

fullerena16 May 2017 7:46 a.m. PST

Which aspects of 1940 Wehrmacht and SS small unit tactics should be adopted, then, aside from looser ROE and greater numbers of troops deployed, neither of which are particularly unique to the Nazis?

fullerena16 May 2017 7:47 a.m. PST

I mean, all I want is a few specifics.

Legion 416 May 2017 7:52 a.m. PST

We have adopted some of the tactics used by the Germans regarding use of MGs and Infantry at a small unit level. Among other things. Like Tank & Infantry units working together with FA & CAS. And it's been that way for a very long time.
You just don't like I said Nazis, though very bad people were pretty good at killing the enemy in combat. Which is what a any combat unit should be, good at killing the enemy.

The mission of the Infantry is to close with the enemy [Daesh/AQ, IJFs, Nazis, USSR, VC/NVA, etc.]utilizing fire & maneuver to kill, capture, and destroy enemy personnel and equipment.

That is what combat units do … but I guess you may not know that.

Legion 416 May 2017 7:54 a.m. PST

I mean, all I want is a few specifics.
I think I already did that …
You may also want to read books, like Rommel's Infantry Attacks, etc.

Legion 416 May 2017 7:57 a.m. PST

Classic delusions of power and self importance…
If that means I am trained and knowledgeable about Infantry Small unit tactics, etc. Probably better than you … well …

fullerena16 May 2017 7:58 a.m. PST

OK, so the good bits of their tactics have been adopted and improved upon for decades even during the war in question, but I'll handwave that and say it was all taken from the Nazis.

So what specifically should we adopt, now, from 1940 Wehrmacht and SS tactics?

Edit: You haven't actually offered specifics.

Legion 416 May 2017 8:13 a.m. PST

Here's an example of what I'm talking about … link

So what specifically should we adopt, now, from 1940 Wehrmacht and SS tactics?

Use of the MG within the Infantry Squad

Sustained operations to get into the enemies decision cycle. Don't give him time to react

Maneuver to the flanks and rear e.g. Blitzkrieg

The Combined Arms concept

Attacking into the enemies rear areas to destroy log and block reinforcements, etc.

Use of aircraft effectively at a tactical level.

Those are just a few.

Are you even " qualified" to quiz me ? Like an instructor at the Infantry school or Combined Arms courses. Or at the Ranger Camp ? Why don't I think you are ? Or did you just read about all this history stuff ?

But in the situation with terrorists. You fight to win, and destroy the enemies' will to fight, rearm and refit. Make their loses so heavy they can not longer fight. Surely you even understand that ?

fullerena16 May 2017 8:23 a.m. PST

Correct. I am not even a Ranger, much less qualified to instruct them.

So what part of those many and varied factors can the Wehrmacht and SS educate the modern militaries of the world on? Well, some of said militaries are pretty bad, but would the better militaries that currently exist be better at teaching them than some 1940s soldiers with an unhealthy enthusiasm for einsatzgruppen? You're still really not anywhere close to specifics.

I have heard the term "combined arms," if it helps you calibrate my level of ignorance, but I've heard "rush b cyka blyat" more often.

Legion 416 May 2017 8:29 a.m. PST

I think you are reading more into my posts or more like you are trolling and looking for an argument. I think I've made my points. So If you think I'm an advocate of Nazis, or war crimes etc. I know you are very much off base. I think you don't like my take on this type of warfare. And possibly a bit anti-military, etc. But you can continue to troll.

heard "rush b cyka blyat" more often.
Now that is just trying be silly.

Oh Bugger Inactive Member16 May 2017 8:34 a.m. PST

I'll add my voice to the free Weasel throng.

Falsely accused and did nothing wrong.

I hope he isn't left there long.

Legion 416 May 2017 8:35 a.m. PST

P C
Very much so …

Legion 416 May 2017 8:36 a.m. PST

I hope he isn't left there long.
3 days and he'll be out … he's already served about a day ! Geez !

fullerena16 May 2017 8:37 a.m. PST

You're not advocating for war crimes or Nazi ideology. That's clear. You are claiming that Nazis are better at fighting terrorists though, and refusing to state what that belief is based on except that it isn't based on them committing war crimes.

You've claimed it's because they provided the basis for modern military small unit tactics, but that they do them… better? You've claimed it's because they're not PC SJWs, but I'd argue that most small unit combats don't involve much tumblr. You've claimed it's because they were good at combined arms in 1940, and better at tactical CAS, and better at manoeuvre, better at destroying enemy logistics… but you've not said how they're better at those things than modern militaries? You've just listed the basic battlefield role of infantry and said that they're better at it, and presented that as an answer when asked why and how they're better at it.

But I'm the one trolling?

Mate, you haven't seen my Bleeped text, and you won't, because this isn't an appropriate environment for it. It's not actually very good Bleeped text, but it's trollier than me trying to get you to state your argument and not flee to generalities and handwaving.

GarrisonMiniatures Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member16 May 2017 8:41 a.m. PST

'This is a good way of doing that.'

'Good. Let's copy it.'

'The people who invented it were bad people.'

'Oh. In that case we better not copy it.'

Life doesn't work that way. German armies did quite well militarily for quite a while. And others copied some of their methods and adapted them to their own armies. Other things they didn't copy – they worked out how to beat them. That's how it goes. Some things you copy and put your own slant on it, other things you learn the counter.

Yes, the GERMANS – not all were Nazis, in fact, most weren't – did develop tactics and methods that others copied.

Fine. Learn to live with it people.

fullerena16 May 2017 8:44 a.m. PST

Copy it, improve upon it, but once you've done that you don't need to find more SS officers 70 years later to teach you how to do it the original way.

If there are some ancient lost counter-terrorist secrets in the Wehrmacht and SS tactics book, which ones should we copy now? Specifically? Because that's all I've been trying to get Legion 4 to answer.

I'm really not trolling! I'm legitimately curious. So far the closest answers have been "loosen the ROE" and "fight to win!", neither of which are particularly original, and neither of which require Nazis. The US has done both. Repeatedly.

Legion 416 May 2017 8:49 a.m. PST

Amen Garrison… Amen … that was my general point. And yes it is well known my hatred for terrorists.
But some times if you say Nazi … some go crazy and think you advocate the whole Nazi thing.

I don't … obviously …

fullerene … I've made points … you can or can not agree with it.

Mate, you haven't seen my shitposting, and you won't, because this isn't an appropriate environment for it. It's not actually very good shitposting, but it's trollier than me trying to get you to state your argument and not flee to generalities and handwaving.
Wow … I'm glad you can't say those things … you may hurt my feelings …

Legion 416 May 2017 8:53 a.m. PST

I'm legitimately curious. So far the closest answers have been "loosen the ROE" and "fight to win!", neither of which are particularly original, and neither of which require Nazis. The US has done both. Repeatedly.
Again, I've made my points. I was only making statement that it would be interesting to have a Nazi/SS vs. Deash scenario. But for some reason you don't want to get that …

Bottom line you got upset because I said Nazis would be effective in fighting Daesh/AQ. And yes, the US is very good at it too. As far as "fighting to win". I don't want to get into a political discussion about that. As that would very much lead to the DH. But please continue on. You could join Weasel …

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