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"Jeep carrier vet" Topic


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vtsaogames15 May 2017 3:47 a.m. PST

Yesterday I spoke to a gentleman who served on escort carriers during WWII. He served on one in the Atlantic and then on one in the Pacific. I asked him how many planes the ships carried. The answer was 28, 14 Avengers and 14 Wildcats. He said the Atlantic carrier claimed 11 U-Boats. I thanked him for that since my father was a wiper on merchant ships in the Atlantic.

The veteran was an aircraft mechanic. He once purchased a Piper Cub in parts for $200 USD and spent 3 years repairing it it, then flew it.

vtsaogames15 May 2017 3:48 a.m. PST

First time the triple post bug got me…

Brad Jenison15 May 2017 6:51 a.m. PST

My dad served on the Rendova

attilathepun4715 May 2017 8:52 a.m. PST

I also talked (many years ago) with a gentleman who served in escort carriers during World War II. He remarked that the Wildcats assigned to escort carriers were a variant (built by Martin, if memory serves) that were considerably "hotter" in performance than the original Grummans.

Paul B15 May 2017 9:29 a.m. PST

I wonder why half the aircraft were fighters – apart from encountering a rare Condor aircraft they wouldn't have much to do compared with the Avengers with their greater endurance and bomb/depth charge load.

vtsaogames15 May 2017 11:59 a.m. PST

More eyes in the sky? And they could always strafe a boat on the surface, forcing it to dive and move slower than the convoy.

wminsing15 May 2017 3:04 p.m. PST

I suspect the Wildcats were always lugging a few bombs around if on Patrol on the Atlantic; one lucky hit and the U-Boat won't be able submerge.

-Will

attilathepun4716 May 2017 6:45 a.m. PST

Escort carriers did not just perform convoy escort. They also provided air cover and close air support for amphibious operations, hence the need for a fighter complement.

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP16 May 2017 9:29 a.m. PST

Even if we speak only of Atlantic convoy duty, aircraft were the #2 threat after submarines. Not only could they damage ships by bombing, but planes like the Fw-200 Condor could remain on station for some period of time, outside of AA range, and report the convoy speed and direction. 30 to 60 minutes of such readings would take the convoy through multiple zigs and zags, provided very useful baseline data for German fleet HQ to help the submarines set intercepting courses.

The issue was important enough that, prior to the availability of escort carriers, the Brits mounted Hurricanes on catapults on merchant ships (the so-called CAM s: Catapult Armed Merchants). These poor sods had no where to land. Their missions almost always resulted in the loss of their aircraft through ditching, unless they were by luck close enough to friendly land bases (rare indeed, as most of the time if they were in range of a friendly airbase, they had friendly air cover). But it was judged worth a 100% loss rate on fighters (and no small number of their pilots, too -- ditching was a dangerous business) to chase away the Condors.

Also, you don't know what missions will be assigned when you work a ship up. Airgroups are not like rounds of ammo … you don't just change the loadout from one mission to the next. While it was certainly possible to ship airgroups with different organizations, once aboard they generally stayed aboard for many missions. So some flexibility in assignment would be a good thing.

He remarked that the Wildcats assigned to escort carriers were a variant (built by Martin, if memory serves) that were considerably "hotter" in performance than the original Grummans.

I don't think Martin built any Wildcats. Later Wildcats were built by General Motors (FM-1 and FM-2 variants). These were indeed "hotter" than earlier Grumman Wildcats.

By mid-war Grumman was too busy building Hellcats and Avengers, and did not have capacity to continue building Wildcats. But the USN wanted to keep the Wildcat in production to serve on smaller carriers (like the escort carriers, but also some of the light fleet carriers), in roles where the larger, more advanced fighters might not be necessary, but an adequate, smaller fighter was useful. So GM took up the production. I think, in both cases, the upgrades were Grumman designed, with newer more powerful engines. Just that they were built by GM.

For those who don't know how to decode USN aircraft designations during late WW2, they are based on:
1) Aircraft type
2) Manufacturer
3) Model, in sequence, of that aircraft type built by that manufacturer.

So FM-2 is a Fighter (F), built by GM (M), that is the second fighter type built by GM for the USN.

This was a later war variation on the earlier designations, which were:
1) Aircraft type
2) Model, in sequence, of that aircraft type built by that manufacturer.
3) Manufacturer.

So F4F is a Fighter (F), that is the fourth fighter type (4) built by Grumman (F). And an F4U is a Fighter (F), that is the fourth fighter type (4) built by Vought (U).

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

vtsaogames16 May 2017 12:10 p.m. PST

What were the advanced fighters?

attilathepun4717 May 2017 9:49 a.m. PST

@Mark I,

Yes, now that I think about it more, the fellow I talked to was speaking of the FM variants built by General Motors. And to visaogames, the more advanced fighters were the Hellcats (F6F)and Corsairs (F4U).

vtsaogames17 May 2017 2:45 p.m. PST

Ah, I was confused, thought the Hellcat was the earlier fighter.

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