"Will The Zombies Starve When They Eat YOUR Brain?" Topic

(Note: Possibly useful with other "creatures" too)

I often wonder what's wrong with "survivors" in a zombie apocalypse movie when they don't use easy methods for preventing the approach of zombies on their camp, using materials they may have plenty of.

They just seem to think everything has to be resolved by wasting essential ammo or by risking close hand to hand combat.

Why not something basic like this "cheval de frise" for a barrier?

And why not something like this forest of bamboo sticks with cans on top, for detecting approach (or simply a line with cans or little bells)?

Anything else? Any other suggestions for simple protective "terrain" measures that the average survivor guys/gals could put together?

Dan

I watched season 1 of the Netflix Van Helsing. Obviously vampires replaced zombies but I really liked the way one survivor (ex marine) had fortified the hospital with explosives, barricades, UV lights and booby traps.

Will Smiths character did something similar in "I am Legend" with metal shutters and UV lights on his house

Of course if your zombies are like the ones in World War Z even massive walls and the Israeli army won't help much

Put all your gear on the 2nd floor.
Destroy the stairway.
Use a ladder to get up to the 2nd floor.
Pull ladder up behind you.
Sleep like a baby, no nasty surprises.

I recall reading the stairway suggestion in a WWII British Infantry training manual. Made sense then, makes sense now.

Another option is to keep some In-Laws and a small caliber pistol available for emergencies. In case of zombie scourge, apply one slight leg wound and make your own hasty exit.

You don't have to be the fastest runner. Only the second slowest.

In the Walking Dead Morgan had a pretty fortified area with a bunch of sharpened sticks…

In Half Life 2 there is Ravenholm!

Really it comes down to how much time you have and how easy you have it to build such defenses. Its hard when you are always moving or constantly overwhelmed.

Survival became difficult only after these perishes learnt to run!

Whose bright idea was that?

That's one of my problems with a lot of these scenarios. When you need to fortify something against zombies, first dig a moat around the area, 8-10 feet deep, use the dirt to create the first wall, which can be used as a forward firing position against human enemies, and ensures that the zombies have to crawl trough the moat and then up the wall to get at any further defenses.

Guess it all is about resources. So other survivors are you main problem. Best to have the no one home look for your hideout.

The rakes in Plants vs Zombies seem to work really well (if you could get enough of them… ;-)

"I often wonder what's wrong with "survivors" in a zombie apocalypse movie when they don't use easy methods for preventing the approach of zombies on their camp (…)"

Scriptwriter Failure. ;-) (In a RL scenario, they'd be among the first to get eaten…)

Cans or bells on sticks, so, is that zombie defence by virtue of more cowbell?

;o)

A crane and a large supply of concrete median barriers would make a great way of channelling zeds into a kill zone.

Part of the problem with these 'simple' solutions is a lack of manpower. I mean digging a 8-10 ft moat is a great idea, but when was the last time you did some serious digging with a shovel? And the "cheval de frise" looks cool and effective, but I don't have a press drill big enough to make those holes.

Now for solutions: barbed wire / fencing (while everyone else is raiding the grocery store, get yourself to the farm supply store). Sharpened bamboo spikes, points about 2-3 ft off the ground (you don't have to kill the zombies, just mangle their legs).

Stryderg,

That sounds a lot like some of the improvised traps and deterrents I've seen in photos from the Vietnam War era.

Dan

The problem with any fortified position – it's static.
So, congratulations, you've managed to make it impenetrable… now you're stuck there.
Hope you've got enough food and fresh water for, y'know… ever.
And zeds tend to 'herd up'. If you've got half a dozen milling around the perimeter today – there'll be a dozen tomorrow. Two dozen the day after, and so on.

If you want to fort up somewhere, it's a Bridge for the win.
Blockade both ends – with abandoned vehicles initially, you can build later.
(The building priority: some kind of screen. If they can't see you, they don't get excited.)
You can construct zed-inaccessible shelters on the superstructure above, or below the road level. Sizeable above-road superstructure offers superb elevated vantage points.
Bucket on a string for water (upstream for intake, downstream for output.)
Ladders to water level for boat access and emergency escape. Pull them up to prevent enterprising usurpers.

Alternatively – head north.
Zeds are dead. They don't have intrinsic body heat and will freeze solid once the temperature drops.
Depending on how far north your skills and gear will take you, you're looking at potentially months of zed-free time to build, scout, travel, trade, trap and hunt. None of it easy – it's sub-zero, after all – but infinitely better than doing those same activities under constant zombie threat. Factor in the lower population density and the threat level drops further.

It's a good point that there are plenty of people especially in towns and cities that these days just wouldn't have the required skills or probably fitness to build a lot of the ideas out forward.

I'm a gardener in real life so I'd feel confident I could my grow food in the apocalypse. I've done plenty of landscaping so I could handle construction in wood digging trenches and such like but it would take time, material and the right tools which would probably be in short supply only a few weeks after the apocalypse starts. All those handy electric drills and screw drivers are just much junk without mains power or when the batteries die.

On the other hand being British I've never even handled a firearm let alone fired one so on the weapons front I'm reduced to hand to hand..

My main issue visa-vi moats and walls is a situation like the Prison in Walking Dead, when they have the manpower and the time and stuff and its still not done. The same with Cacique Caribe's cheval de frise, it's an obvious fortification that is rarely used.

Obviously the best solution in a zombie apocalypse is to not be in a zombie apocalypse.

>>On the other hand being British I've never even handled a firearm let alone fired one so on the weapons front I'm reduced to hand to hand.<<

Learning to effectively use a rifle or shotgun isn't difficult at all. Learning how to maintain an automatic weapon is a whole 'nother ball game that requires training and some experience. Tactics and discipline also require training and some experience.

Norman: "If you want to fort up somewhere, it's a bridge for the win"

I've also given that terrain idea some thought over the years.

TMP link
TMP link

Dan

Watching what will be the zombies. I personally prefer the "slow" ones, from Romero's early films. That's against them, such cheval de frise may well be useful – they are not very heavy (a couple of people are enough to move one), but at the same time they can be put on vulnerable terrain. On the other hand, they are stable enough not to tip over. Also they are not solid, and to fire on zombies, which are stopped by them, is quite simple.
Their main drawback is that they must be done. In the absence of electricity, all these holes are pierced with a pivot – that's another job.

I bet that's where I got the idea!

@UsmanK: "cheval de frise may well be useful … Their main drawback is that they must be done. In the absence of electricity, all these holes are pierced with a pivot – that's another job."

That's why I am really impressed with that first photo, as it was from an example used on a Civil War battlefield.

Here's another angle of it:

link

link

Dan

Hello, Cacique Caribe !

I agree. Honestly, I'm also amazed at how people had the patience to do it all. To cut out fairly even sticks (well, I can still understand it), then poke holes (with the help of an inconvenient collet), and most importantly there are dozens of them. However, I was always amazed at how people know how to make such things from a tree.
In principle, in the case of a zombie apocalypse, someone can make an ersatz cheval de frise from a metal fence, attaching them with a wire like cheval de frise

Another thing that bothers me is that nobody makes spears. Some sharpened piping or glass on the end a pole can work wonders for silent zombie elimination, let alone what could be worked out in a forge in an established sanctuary (looking at you Woodbury), though at least they did use bows for distant zombies.

Then of course there's armor. Biker Leathers, rawhide, multiple layers of tape, it's not hard to make, and wouldn't be that heavy even for wanderers, let alone people with access to motor vehicles or bicycles. Gorget, greaves and vambraces should protect the most likely ares to be zombie bit, and that's not even mentioning what a more estalished area, your Woodubry or the Prison, might have on hand to fight off a horde.

@CrazyIvanov: "Gorget, greaves and vambraces should protect the most likely ares to be zombie bit"

If I recall correctly, the protagonist in World War Z made vambraces out of phonebooks and duct tape.*

A gorget out of slick gallon containers (milk/water) plastic shouldn't be that difficult to make. Same goes for greaves and vambraces. Well, until something better comes along.

"Another thing that bothers me is that nobody makes spears … Then of course there's armor. Biker Leathers, rawhide, multiple layers of tape, it's not hard to make, and wouldn't be that heavy even for wanderers, let alone people with access to motor vehicles or bicycles."

When I was a stupid little kid growing up in Puerto Rico, we used to joust on our bicycles. Maybe grown ups will do the same on motorbikes then, but with sharp points of course. :)

Dan
* EDIT – Found it. One is the scene inside the apartment building:
YouTube link
And then he shows the doctors to do the same towards the end of the movie:
YouTube link

Well with years of history on low cost low tech defenses always amazed when they aren't used? Or snow plows – frozen Zombies even better. Brush Hogs, Road rollers etc..
When the Zombie hordes start coming you can bet my areas will have tons of natural defenses. Also everyone ties themselves in at bedtime – simple knots or quick release straps. Just in case you turn at night in your sleep.
Lots more ideas and have even used some in games.

If you look at it too hard, Zombies don't stand a chance against humans.

We are too good at making tools, to be overcome by 'animal level intelligence' even in massive numbers.

I'm not sure where the massive numbers would come from, since stopping the outbreak would be fairly easy.

Unless there is some limitless supply of zombies a good chain link fence for a perimeter would do quite well. At least in the Walking Dead world.

At the prison what the group should have been doing is first making some of those spears Crazyivanov writes about. Then a daily perimeter patrol to go along and stick zombies.

With chain link you have plenty of openings to thrust trough and can get close enough for accurate thrusts.

Depending on the fuel situation one could then burn the corpses to prevent having to deal with the stench and other impacts of decay. Alternatively if there are periods when the zombies are all eliminated on could sally ad drag the corpses off.

If one has reserves of ammunition, then the patrol could carry .22lr target pistols and use hose instead of spears although the sound could attract more zombies or other unwanted attention.

As to armor, I have mentioned the Australian film 'Wyrmwood' in which the main character did armor up with motocross/sport equipment.

And then there is SCA or reenactors armor – certainly capable of improving one's survivability even if not optimized for zombies.

For a spear, I'd go with a sharpened length of rebar and some good gloves. Puncture, scramble, repeat. ;-)

My motorcycle riding gear would be effective armor against zombies. The weakest point would be the neck. That could easily be fixed if required, though I don't think its that bad a weakness.

Very easy to manufacture spears.

Realistically, at least in the United States, there is plenty of ammo, in the hands of civilians (not just the military) to deal with a zombie outbreak. Survival rates among US civilians should be pretty high.

@Apache6: "Realistically, at least in the United States, there is plenty of ammo, in the hands of civilians (not just the military) to deal with a zombie outbreak. Survival rates among US civilians should be pretty high."

Lol. "Survivors" in zombie films that take place in the U.K. or Europe definitely spend most of their time just running a lot. Lots and lots of running. That really takes a very literal approach to the word "fit" in "survival of the fittest". :)

Dan

Problem with sports armour – motocross gear et al – is that it's all hard edges and straps. Basically, what you've done is cover your body with "grab handles".
Motorcycle leathers are a way better option. You can't bite through them and they offer no purchase for grabby fingers.

Norman,

I hadn't thought about all the "grab handles" when it comes to zombies. Excellent point!

First rule, know your enemy, right?

Dan

The main problem isn't even zombies. It's humans. We would turn on each other in an instant. If we all worked together, it would be over in a year max.

Sapphy Skies, said:
"The main problem isn't even zombies. It's humans."

I know that's what's depicted in the genre; but…

Humans are smarter then they are depicted in Zombie movies and shows. They are also tribal and stick together. All the differences of race, gender and class pale in comparison between living humans and flesh eating zombies.

I believe that humans would quickly put down any Zombie outbreaks as depicted in TV shows and movies. It does not make for great games. Would there be conflict between humans after that, quite possibly.

Some humans would also not just hold up. They would actively organize and take the fight to the 'enemy.' A heavy equipment operator with a standard bulldozer (as long as it's got an enclosed operators cabin – most do) good destroy any number of zombies. Since they are drawn to noise, the bulldozer serves as both bait and trap. Yes, the operator is going to need friends with small arms and access to fuel, but that is not that difficult to find.

In that environment a combat engineer unit would be very useful.

That's true, never really assumed humanity would stay united in the face of the undead.

I mean, to be fair, smaller problems than flesh-eating walking dead have caused humans to turn on each other though. Hell, sports cause a divide