"Rifles cap badge" Topic
9 Posts
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deadhead | 08 May 2017 3:45 a.m. PST |
Now forgive what seems a daft question. I have long known about the theory of the Rifles adopting the "1812" cap well before Waterloo….but cannot bear to consider that. however, just about to start on my Brigade Miniatures figures and noticed the Osprey cover "Wellington's Infantry 2". Two riflemen sporting brass, not silver, bugle horns. "Surely not", I cried. So I ploughed my way through many a site, finally reading that the silver badge we all take for granted (well I did) is a Victorian thing. White metal buttons but a brass cap badge? Really? |
Artilleryman | 08 May 2017 4:18 a.m. PST |
Hey, it is the British Army. Anything goes……. |
dibble | 08 May 2017 4:53 a.m. PST |
From: Rifle Green at Waterloo, 1990. By George Caldwell and Robert Cooper. Dress Regulations 1802. Under the heading: 'HAT OR HELMET' "Officers of the Rifle Corps when in service uniform to wear helmets with a hair cockade and green feather and a silver crown and Bugle engraved on the right side of the helmet. ('Helmets' struck out and penciled in is 'Caps like their men')." The Officers helmet was the light Dragoon Tarleton type 'CAPS' "Caps made of felt and leather, with brass plate, cockade, and tuft are to be worn by…every description of Corps of Infantry…the Rifle Corps not to wear the brass fronting on their caps, but, instead, to have a Bugle and Crown, with green cord round the cap. The sergeants and buglers to wear green feathers, the armourers and rank and file a green tuft similar to Light Infantry" (In the 'amended copy' the last sentence is altered to: 'The sergeants, buglers, and rank and file to wear green feathers') Seeing as the silver crown and bugle is mentioned in the officers dress and 'a Bugle and Crown mentioned in the other ranks, with no indication of which colour metal it should be, we have no hard evidence. But my interpretation of it is that the O.R's had white metal with perhaps the sergeants having a silver badge like the officers. Paul :)
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deadhead | 08 May 2017 5:27 a.m. PST |
Many thanks for that evidence. Snag is that 71st had a brass bugle for privates, on the legendary HLY bonnet with the dicing, but the officers had a plain black cap….with a silver badge! |
dibble | 08 May 2017 5:53 a.m. PST |
It wouldn't be surprising if they didn't blacken the badge anyway to get rid of the brightness, they could do this by burning the surface over a fire or black balling them, or simply just removing them whilst on campaign. Paul :) |
Ben Townsend | 11 May 2017 12:01 a.m. PST |
I would recommend a browse of the 2/95th rifles forum, where this question has been addressed several times. To provide the gist of the research there: the rifles and light infantry seem to have followed the rest of the regiments of foot in having brass plates for the privates, corporals and buglers/drummers, and something else for the officers. An early clothing order for the rifle corps mentions brass- the order could possibly be construed as referring to the universal 1800 plate, but as you can see from Caldwell and Cooper's through quote of the 1802 clothing book above, it was acknowledged in 1802 that the rifle corps were wearing a buglehorn and not the USP. Weight is given to the argument for the light infantry's use of brass by the recovery of many 'brass' buglehorn cap plates of identical manufacture from Georgian military sites in France, Spain, Portugal, England and America. That is, of course, hardly proof that these cap badges were associated with the 95th, but since no corresponding pattern of identical finds has been found in white metal, I am inclined to assert that this cap badge was probably that of the light infantry and rifles other ranks, not having seen any official papers to indicate they were anything but brass. If you want to follow the discussion, or want more elaboration on these points, I suggest posing a question here, link |
deadhead | 11 May 2017 1:22 a.m. PST |
That is a brilliant link for far more than just the cap badge. MUCH appreciated |
dibble | 11 May 2017 2:40 p.m. PST |
I personally reckon that the 95th never wore it on campaign. There are excellent contemporary illustrations of volunteer rifle regiment O.R's that clearly show their hats without a badge and are depicted generally on manoeuvres /exercise. Ben Townsend but since no corresponding pattern of identical finds has been found in white metal, I am inclined to assert that this cap badge was probably that of the light infantry and rifles other ranks, not having seen any official papers to indicate they were anything but brass. Have you seen any evidence where the description of a 95th Riles 'O.R's cap-badge as being of 'brass'? Is there any description of a 95th officer's cap-badge being Silver (yes)? Silver-gilt (no)? Has there been a 95th officers silver cap (or pouch) badge being found? Do we even know the form the bugle-horn badge would look like? Best thing is to say that you know as much as I do and that it is your, my and others thoughts and conclusion on the matter. But until definitive evidence becomes available, we don't know. |
Ben Townsend | 11 May 2017 11:45 p.m. PST |
Hi Dibble, I tend to agree with you about the cap badge not being worn on service, though its impossible to be dogmatic based solely on images. In answer to your question, yes- there is a clothing order for the 95th that refers to brass cap badges, An 1801 clothing warrant for the Rifle Corps details a brass cap plate, "…each Sergeant, Corporal, Drummer (bugler), and Private Man shall have.. A Cap, cockade and tuft as above specified (viz., A Cap made of Felt and Leather with Brass plates Cockade and Tuft conformable to a pattern approved by Us, the felt crown of the cap and Tuft to be supplied annually, the leather part and Brass plate and the leather cockade every two years.)" Clothing Warrant 1801 from Book of Entries, Military and Martial Affairs, 1801 i.e.3.59. Record Office. Dublin. Reproduced in History of The Rifle Brigade, Verner, vol1 p.42 The dug examples come from Spain, France, UK and North America, all from sites of the era. That of the 2/95th is based on one in the possession of James Kochan. All are identical. We can confidently say that they are Georgian cap plates. Are they 95th plates? We can't say, as they aren't found with numbers. The order to add numbers to LI cap plates comes in 1814. My contacts in the Pyrenees say they havent dug any numbers, despite finding multiple plates. The chubby silver buglehorn so beloved of re-enactors is usually a copy of a post period horn. Often from a victorian glengarry. Yes other shapes and sizes of horns are dug, but not in these numbers, they tend to be isolated examples, which we have interpreted as indicating that they are private purchase officer's examples. For more information on the officer's caps, see the 1802 clothing book. Its available on-line. You are welcome to agree or disagree with my assertion. Its just that, my opinion based on the evidence available. When the evidence changes, I reassess my opinion. |
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