"Americans! Please explain!" Topic

My daughter has just asked me why Kansas is pronounced 'Kansas' but Arkansas is pronounced 'Arkensaw'. So, does anyone know why?

Personally I think it is a bit off. Having totally illogical pronunciation that confuses foreigners is supposed to be a British thing! Americans encroaching on our territory….

I'm from Georgia in the southern United States. If there was a northern state that spelled its name Arkgorgia, I'd be-a-callin-it Arkgeorgiass myself.

It's a French pronunciation left over from the Louisiana purchase. Similar tribe name was anglicized when they were naming Kansas.

Pronunciation here is a completely illogical hodge podge. But many French names are phoneticized. Like ver-sales (Versailles) and dess planes (Des Plaines}. Then there's cayro (Cairo) and that's all just here in Illinois….

It's America, because we can.

And New Berlin is pronounced New Burlin with the emphasis on the But,

We've got a lot of mixed heritage vocabulary. And you have to remember that America is pretty big place. London to Glasgow is what, 400 miles? That's about how long our trips to visit family were (until they moved). That didn't even cross one state.

And the Kansas River is pronounced Kaw river. Again old native names spelled according to French or Spanish phonetics then Anglicized.

It's English…all kinds of different words are pronounced differently depending on your accent or where you're from.

You can see it in Indiana too--towns taking the name of places they'd read about and had no idea how to pronounce, and the underlay of French town and river names. French personal names are troublesome too. My recollection is that Huguenot usually changed the spelling to keep the pronunciation, and Cajun mostly changed the pronunciation while keeping the spelling. But specifically on Kansas and Arkansas:
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Depending on what part of the US you are from. Certain things are pronounced differently. As many have noted here … It's just the way we do things !

In Michigan we had Mackinac(Mackinaw)and Sault(soo) St. marie. I think it is a French thing

As some folks have pointed out, many American place names come from quite an array of different languages. Arkansas and Kansas are probably Indian words translated into english. That is very much the case in Maryland where many of our place names are Native American. Then you French, Spanish, Dutch, German, and on and on to add into the mix. You also have regional dialects to add to the mix too! There's a city in my home state of Alabama spelled Arab, but it's pronounced Aa (long A sound)-Rab.

Texarkana is Tex R Canna
( I think)

we have New Burr-len (New Berlin)

And are we sure the English hold the patent on this one? Please consult with any number of southern Taliaferos. (Pronounced "Tolivers.")

Cause we won the War we call it what we want. Just like when the British ruled over something they called it what they wanted. The funny thing is the way the name sounds depends on who is saying it. When the Aliens land they will fix all this so don't lose sleep over it. The names I mean you can lose sleep over the coming invasion.

American English is such a conglomeration of many languages that rules no longer apply. Too many exceptions. Just memorize every word. When you grow up with it, it all makes sense. No. You just accept it.

It's the way we trip up foreign spies and agents, who can't possibly keep up with ALL the inconsistencies in our language.

Many are on the suspect watch lists, including those that can't pronounce to-may-toe, to-mah-toe, or po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe, aunt and a'nt, and aluminum vs. alu-minium, properly.

Yes, these two originated as Native American names. French explorers going down the Mississippi (or maybe up it) picked up local names of rivers from the natives, and probably mangled them a bit in the process. Then, the sort-of-English speaking Americans came along and made a mess of the French pronunciations. French, as I understand it, has two pronunciations for the letter "A," but each "A" in Arkansas or Kansas is pronounced differently. Just to make things a little more fun, once you get into Kansas, the Arkansas River is pronounced Are-Kansas.

Grelber

And there's Loo-Ah-Vul. Remember that when you watch The Derby this weekend.

And New Berlin is pronounced New Burlin with the emphasis on the But,

Only since 1917.

In the Northwest we have many place names that are Native American. Some are phonetic such as Humptulips (Hump-two-lips). My home is in Puyallup (Pew-al-lup.) But my favorite is Sequim (Skwim.)

When I lived in Nebraska the town we lived in was Papillion, it was pronounced pa-pill-yon, in Illinois (silent "s") the town of San Jose is pronounced san josey.

There is no sense to the various pronunciations in the United States.

And let's not forget words other than place names:

Irate and pirate don't rhyme
Nor do tough and though
Nor do rough and through

I blame the French. Old English was heavily influenced by Latin, and had quite close mapping of letters and and sounds. Then, in 1066, the French invaded and took over. All official writing was in French, and English became the language of the poor, the dispossessed, and the mostly illiterate.

After a few hundred years of those ordinary people writing things down however they felt like it, the written language was a disaster. Daniel Webster helped straighten it out a little, but the damage has been done.

Ask a native NYC'er where Houston street is and get a look of scorn in return.

In Texas (and everywhere else), it's HOUSTON.

In Manhattan, it's HOW-STON Street.

Go figure.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Of course I am aware that America is a big place and was built by immigrants speaking many different languages. The thing is, with most American pronunciations of place names there is a sort of logic. You can look at the spelling and see why it ended up being pronounced the way it is. Examples from above include San Jose, Humptulips, Cairo etc. It may be different, but sort of logical!

The Kansas/Arkansas thing stands out because a state is more high profile than a town or city and the spelling is so similar!

Anyway, as a little teaser, anyone want to take a guess how the locals pronounce Wrotham?

Missouri .
Mis sur rah for Pro states rights pre ACW families is the state.
Mis sur re for ethnic German and other post civil war migrants in the same state.
Both are used in the state currently.
So the way it is pronounced hints at the speakers origins.

I'm in Lafayette, Georgia, here my neighbors pronounce it Lafet. And I might add, they attempt to correct me every time I say it…… CORRECTLY!!!!

The river in New London CT is the Thames.

The pronounce London the same as it is in the UK but the river is pronounced like games with a soft th like a lisp at the beginning.

Never heard a good reason why.

Wilkes Barre is pronounced by the locals as "Wooks Berry".
Commercials produced out of town has the ignorant annonncer say "Barr-AY" or even just "Bar".
Up da line is Carbondale. " Carbon Dale." Easy, right? I heard a commercial say "car BON de lay".

By the way, you do not pronounce the T in " Scranton". I can't spell out the proper pronunciation because it would summon Cthulhu.

O-re-gone not O-re-gun as I was explained in great detail after moving there :)

DOM is named Gisèle. We spelled it Gisselle (1) to get rid of the accent which would have been problematic and, (2) to give Americans a shot at pronouncing it. Fifty percent success. Pretty much everyone (including her parents) calls her Gigi ("jiji" not "zhee-zhee").

One of my father's favourite pastimes was to listen to the local college radio station in the fall and catalogue the various pronunciations of Monongahela and Allegheny (River, County, Township, School, Forest, Valley, etc.) by a new crop of freshman Journalism students. He firmly believed that the professors (at one of my mother's alma maters) never gave the kids a heads up to scan copy for unfamiliar proper nouns as a kind of learning experience.

And then there is Oregon. Those of us who live here (and in a few adjacent states) pronounce it as OH-ree-gun. The rest of the country persists in calling it something like Aw-raw-GAWN. Nobody knows for certain where the name came from, so no one really knows who is mangling it worst.

Newark (Newark) Delaware and Newark(Newerk), NJ. Same spelling, 122 miles apart, different attitude I guess.

I do have a request for my English friends. I live near Upper Darby, PA. We say Darby. Visited Derby, England, pronounced it derby like the hat but was told that it was not pronounced like Darby. Thought I got it right, but maybe it was my Philly accent (wadder instead of water and all of the other pronunciation malaise that seems to affect this part of the country). Anyone there care to set me straight? Heading back next month and don't want to offend anyone.

There are several words in British English where an 'e' is pronounced like an 'a'.

For example Derby is pronounced Darby and clerk is pronounced clark.

This goes back to the Great Vowel Shift of the Fifteenth Century. For unknown reasons vowel sounds changed but some spellings didn't!

Oberlindes,you've opened a Cannes of Wyrms!

One famous wurm,frequently attributed to Shaw: "Ghoti".

Gh,as in "enough"

O,as in "women"

Ti,as in "nation".

How about this one?: In Germany, Munich is spelled Munchen….
Berlin is pronounced Bear-lin. (The city's logo has a standing bear in it.) With all the suds slopped there, it should be pronounced "Beer-lin". (Insert a cute smiling face here!)

Des Moines == neither of the "S" are pronounced.

Regards
Russ's Dunaway

Try Colorado

Some flat land easterners say Colorada but its really Coloradaoh

Along the North East OH border with PA … some say "yuns" instead of you …

I find this to be a rather typical American explanation.

Yes, it was aliens! Aliens from Germany, aliens from Ireland, aliens from Italy, Poland, Greece, etc., with help from some natives, such as Algonquins, Iroquois, Muskogees, Lakotas, Paiutes, Chinooks, etc.

"My daughter has just asked me why Kansas is pronounced 'Kansas' but Arkansas is pronounced 'Arkensaw'. So, does anyone know why?"

If it is being pronounced "Ahkensah", it is probably someone from Bahston who is lost in their cah…

Pronounce "Tuscarawas".I dare you.

Baltimore…Bawlmer…Bal-tee-more

In Ohio where I was originally from there is a Gallipoli, down on the corner of the state, it's a real scrotum location too. Oh, and it's pronounced-
Gow-lip-po-Lis. I drove thru there several times at used the proper pronunciation from the Dardanelles and you would have thought I was Nakisha Krushev. Not very friendly people either.

And yeah, I live in Lou-ah-vohl. Louisville