"Average dice and fire dice" Topic

Are these still a thing? I bought a pair of average dice at Salute at the weekend.

For those not aware, an average die is a six-sided dice numbered not 123456, but 233445. It is so called because while the average score on one is the same as on a normal D6, the range of possible scores is closer to the 3.5 average. On a normal D6 the highest and lowest scores are 2.5 away from the average; on an average die they are 1.5 away. Also the average difference-versus-the-average is lower – with a D6 it's 1.5 (you can roll from 0.5 to 2.5 away from the average), with an average die it's 0.833.

Likewise fire dice. I've got a couple of those somewhere too. These are numbered 112233.

Quarrie rules used both of these, but what other sets did or do? Obviously some do, because they're still made, but how are they used?

I never quite saw the point of either them. You could simply convert a D6 roll to the required value via a mental table. I never needed them, I just bought them to have.

D3s (1,1,2,2,3,3) are used in quite a few games.
You need to keep them away from your normal D6s.
Otherwise someone will spend half the game wondering why he can't roll above 3!

There are also 'extreme' dice:
1,1,2,5,6,6

I've no idea what they are used for – I have one which was a free giveaway at Salute years ago.

Within the past year, I saw a new rules set which required Average dice. I'll post again when I remember which it was. But they have their uses in homebrews and modifications. For instance you can speed up a CLS game and remove the company basing's effect on fire[power by rolling a DAV by battalion for volley fire instead of a D6 per company.

My D6's are always with pips, and my DAV's with Arabic numerals, which helps with the confusion.

D3: I just use a D6 and half it. Average dice come up every now and again: I got a couple recently (I can't recall what for), as my old ones were faded beyond recognition. Extreme dice – interesting but never come across it before.

I toyed with a rule design for organised troops versus irregulars (say Romans v Gauls) where the Romans used dAV and the Gauls used dEX – to reflect the uncertain nature of the Gaul's courage/determination etc, whereas the Romans would be a more known quantity.

never got beyond the drawing board

Honours of War, the SYW rule set from Osprey, used an average die.

You see the average die in a few places. "Honours of War" and "Scum of the Earth" both use average dice.

D3 comes up a lot. RPGs and wargames alike.

Both can be replicated with the D6. For an average die, the 1 counts as 3 and the 6 counts as four. For the D3, halve the value shown rounded up.

I've never heard of "extreme dice". Anyone know what game used it? Or was it just a gimmick for the show?

I toyed with a rule design for organised troops versus irregulars (say Romans v Gauls) where the Romans used dAV and the Gauls used dEX – to reflect the uncertain nature of the Gaul's courage/determination etc, whereas the Romans would be a more known quantity.

Old editions of the WRG ancient rules used to do that (almost that – regulars used average dice, irregulars used ordinary D6), at least for morale throws.

you can also roll two or three dice to get the same effect. I think special dice are an unnecessary affectation.

Twilight of the Sun King also uses average dice. The effect is not only that you miss out on the extremes: using 2dAv mean that each modifier also has a much larger impact compared to 2d6.

My wife got me a couple D3s that are much larger than my D6s. Can't get them confused.

daler, I think you miss the point. I use a DAV (sometimes) precisely to avoid rolling four D6's, just as I sometimes use D8's, D10's and D12's to avoid until quality modifiers. It all depends on what you find most annoying.

My unnecessary affectations (among the dice) are using LOTR D6's for Dragon Rampant games, teddy bear dice for teddy bear games and such.

TooFatLardie rules often use DAv, though I think the newer rule sets use them less.

I have a few but probably need to pick up a few more; the few I have tend to get lost in amongst the real dice and really need their own bag!

I also have some d3s, never heard of them as firing dice before.

Average dice were useful in their day, but I think the need has passed, given most rule sets today.

I still use average dice from time to time.

When I used to play CLS in the 70's we used average dice instead of normal dice for volley firing.