"HMGS - TIME TO VOTE - You got your ballot!" Topic

Any moves that were proposed were done so with the honest best interest of HMGS in mind.

Please lets stop harping in Timonnium and Baltimore… and a few other places.

IN all of the history of HMGS that I have seen, anyone who proposed a move did so with good intent… not to move to their backyard, etc…. they were exploring options to try to make things bigger and/or better….

There are plenty of people, in and out of HMGS, who would disagree with you, Dan.

Doesn't mean that they are right and you are wrong. Just means they disagree.

As far as "harping" on the past, like the saying goes, those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it.

We'll see.

Unfortunately Dan I am one of those people that 47 Ronin spoke about.

Many times I have been a stern and uncompromising critic of "the bod" and those who felt that HMGS was an "organization" and not a society.

I also said at least four or five years ago that HMGS did not get itself into the position it was in overnight, but got there by a long history of missteps, mistakes, and out and out chuckle-headedness in which the members were alienated, the credibility of the bod trashed, and the positive and joyful feelings of the people towards the HMGS had been soured. I also said that these things would not be recovered or made right in an afternoon or by a few honeyed words here on The Snake Pit. It would be a long time of YEARS for the scabs to drop off, the scars to heal and the trust restored.

I congratulate "the Bod" that in these intervening years they have done something to repair the damage, and allowed time for sensibilities to heal, even if they are still sore. It is time, I think as Dan says, to begin to forget the past, and put it aside and try and hope and work for the future. That there is a cabal of people bent on "revanche" or eventhat there could be a cabal of people so motivated, or even that the POSSIBILITY of such sentiment can be taken with notice is an indication of how little we have come and how much we have to go. As I said years ago, there would be no quick fix to the personal internecine struggles of the 2000-2008 years, but the Bod was by slow and patient effort, even if only by being low key and non confrontational setting the stage where things can calm down.

This is needed so that the joy of the hobby, the fun of conventions, the return of happy memories and good times can build up to crowd out the old hard feelings and wounded pride.

I said back then that what the HMGS has to do first and foremost is be nice to its members. It's members also have to start being nice to each other.

IN all of the history of HMGS that I have seen, anyone who proposed a move did so with good intent… not to move to their backyard, etc…. they were exploring options to try to make things bigger and/or better….

Dan, you're an extremely bright person. I have allot of respect for you. The only thing I ever ask is that nobody play me for stupid. This is almost a classic case of unrinating on my head and telling me it's raining.

Look at the BoD members that voted to move Historicon to FB. Then tell me where they live.

What about the all the issues when HMGS moved Historicon from Maryland to Pennsylvania in the first place? That move was certainly generated by someone who wanted the convention in his backyard. At that time, the largest group of HMGS members were in VA with MD being the second largest group. The HMGS board was pretty much based out of MD and HMGS is still incorporated in MD.

We moved to PA and the MD and VA contingents shrank and PA became the state with the largest amount of members.

I can honestly say that the move to Timonium was tried out of good intentions, but it just didn't work out. I am going to refrain from commenting on the B-more move as I still don't have good feelings about it and how it came about. I was against it completely, even though it would've practically been in my backyard – 10 minutes from the front door.

I have decided on 3 of the candidates and am trying to decide on the last one from a group of three.

Ed, I don't cloak that I'm from NJ, and you don't hide you are from North Carolina, perfect. If you assume I have an "agenda" then the same can be said for you. We both only have one vote, which more than likely will offset each other, plus our free speech here on this forum. Whats more important is the "agenda", qualifications, and past performance of the Candidates who really will determine the future course of HMGS. This is the critical discussion and debate.

Out of respect for Dan, the debacle of Baltimore will not be brought up by me anymore. That does not preclude others from doing so and many have already weighed in on this topic. However, Dan did state emphatically that "If you have QUESTIONS, PUT THEM OUT THERE. I'm sure that the candidates will respond".

I do have a question for Dudley Garidel. In his bio he stated:

"In my opinion, at least 4 members of the current BOD are more interested in their agenda than what is best for HMGS as a whole. If something is not done to stop this, it will jump up and bite HMGS in the ass not too far down the road."

As a clarification, who are the 4 members of the current BOD that do not have the best interests in HMGS as a whole? What is their "Agenda" that is going to "bite HMGS in the ass"? What alternative direction does Mr. Garidel recommend?

These are reasonable questions that deserve clarification by Dudley, addressing HMGS members who want to understand what he is stating, alleging, etc.

War Scorpio, I DO NOT advocate ANY location for H'con.

Fact is, I've been unable to attend ANY conventions
other than local because of my wife's disability.
Have not attended an H'con since 2005 and sure wish
I could, irrespective of the location.

And for your general fund of information, I'm FROM
NEW JERSEY -little town called Palmyra, right across
the river from Philadelphia.

But I like the slow pace of rural NC…

Ed, but your location listed here on TMP states that you are in North Carolina. So to me that Implied you have an agenda for that location as to where the con should move. Maybe if you specified what you did in your prior post there would not be this confusion.

Look at the BoD members that voted to move Historicon to FB. Then tell me where they live.

With all due respect my friend, I cannot chastise the BOD members who moved Historicon to FB. They made a good decision in a bad set of circumstances. In hindsight, it wasn't the best decision as attendance fell. I don't think anyone could be expected to have known that ahead of time. What if Historicon attendance falls again at Lancaster? Are the current BOD members on the hook for that?

Fact is, I've been unable to attend ANY conventions
other than local because of my wife's disability.

I'm really sorry to her this. I hope things get better for the both of you.

But I like the slow pace of rural NC…

I'm jealous.

With all due respect my friend, I cannot chastise the BOD members who moved Historicon to FB. They made a good decision in a bad set of circumstances. In hindsight, it wasn't the best decision as attendance fell. I don't think anyone could be expected to have known that ahead of time. What if Historicon attendance falls again at Lancaster? Are the current BOD members on the hook for that?

I think we need to take a good look at the whole situation. Signing a five year contract is not the best thing that could have been done. The way it was presented to the membership was poor. I think we both know the prevailing attitude from the BoD at the time was, "We'll move and you'll like it. And come".

And I guess whatever they used to determine the demographics was quite flawed.

In the end I believe this move was doomed to failure from the beginning.

BUT….. that being said…. I'm still looking forward to the German restaurant on Wednesday!

Do any of you think that Poniatowski, as time marches on, be giving those people at the time the benefit of the doubt and "moving on." That is attempting to bury the mistakes of the past now that they are past and trying to patch over the former animosities and divisions?

Multi-year contracts are fairly standard. It ensures the renter a fixed price going forward and ensures the owner business – in other words, HMGS knows where it will be in the coming years and hopes (locations change) it will stabilize and grow. The owner isn't out shopping it around in the mean time. Look at some of the run-ins HMGS got into at the Host (remember when one con conflicted with a cat show?). I'll give them a pass on the contract issue. Obviously it's more complicated than that too (think advertising, hotel deals, table rentals, etc.)

The demographic assumptions behind the move were quite flawed. A former founding father (may he rest in peace), who supported the move, was just sure that all kinds of people from the region would attend to support it. He often cited the large number of military in the VA Beach area. Of course he also believed Timonium was a good facility and location as well. That said, he was also responsible for the move from the Penn Harris to the Host, so no one is perfect.

Other's thought their ideas of moving were good ideas as well. The idea of moving to VFCC had been around a long time. The stumbling block at the time was being able to hold a flea market without the township tax people showing up, or demanding an itinerant merchant license to sell. BCC was predicated on holding the con in a very nice facility (it was), in an urban area (it certainly was), close to major public transportation (places/trains), and linked via public transportation (light rail).

I get what Dan is saying. They all believed that moving the con to X was a really good idea. Or, in some cases, they had few options (I know debatable). There was always a strong movement to kill FI too, as a con too far. Not sure if that feeling still exits among some or not.

Here is a link to an announcement posted here on TMP concerning the relocation of Historicon to Baltimore:

TMP link

Here is a link to the blog of Mr. Nizz – Third Point Of Singularity that contains a reproduction of the original announcement from HMGS, Inc. [then commonly and incorrectly know as HMGS (East)]. This includes a list of BOD members at the time of the announcement.

link

Thanks zoneofcontrol

Just reading some of the comments, interesting reading…

I do have a question for Dudley Garidel. In his bio he stated:

"In my opinion, at least 4 members of the current BOD are more interested in their agenda than what is best for HMGS as a whole. If something is not done to stop this, it will jump up and bite HMGS in the ass not too far down the road."

As a clarification, who are the 4 members of the current BOD that do not have the best interests in HMGS as a whole? What is their "Agenda" that is going to "bite HMGS in the ass"? What alternative direction does Mr. Garidel recommend?

I've seen Dudly in action at the membership meeting. There are two words I can use to describe him… Hot Mess.

Last year someone here posted that one of the BOD had said some to the effect that they would never allow Historicon to move, I think if you're going to supposedly quote someone then you need to name them. Similarly for all of us outsiders Dudley should do so as well.

TheKing30, thanks for sharing your witness of Dudley in action, sounds like the perfect discerning Team Player the BoD needs right now, correct? A force of stability?

dapeters, agreed. Not only should he name the members he is disparaging, but in his closing statement he said:

"give me your vote so the BOD will regain a sense of stability and balance oriented to HMGS not their agenda". What is this "agenda" he constantly talks about? The current DoD is unstable? Patiently waiting his response.

SPECIAL thanks goes out to zoneofcontrol for providing the two links that are both relevant and entertaining. All should click on each and check them out.

With the TMP link, it's interesting to go back in time and read some of the comments. There is some educational value too! Never new the difference between a yankee and a damn yankee. Click on the link to find out! I am just a Jereseyan yankee, a socialist to boot (my friends will get a kick out of that). Our friend Ed, however (sorry about your wife Ed, wish you could attend conventions) is originally from Paymyra NJ but now living in NC. HE is a damn yankee….damn! LOL And to think I went to Clemson University in SC in the 70's, with Col Wilbur Grey. Damn!

zoneofcontrol's second "link" describes the move to VF after the Baltimore bust. Scroll down to the first comment by Otto where he describes the antics of Major PeePee. Otto at his best. Something to contemplate.

War Scorpio – diverting just a bit to
say 'CONGRATULATIONS' on that Tiger National
Championship – Clemson's SECOND in football.

I just wish my school (NCSU, although I also attended
Yale) could win once 'gainst you guys…)

Disco Joe, I live in NC because it is a great place
to live, at least in the country.

Thanks Ed. As great as Brady's comeback was in the Super Bowl, the Clemson / Alabama game was ever better. Epic. Those that watched know. My brother went to VA Tech, he's hoping for the same. Just a matter of time.

TheKing30, thanks for sharing your witness of Dudley in action, sounds like the perfect discerning Team Player the BoD needs right now, correct? A force of stability?

Yea.. that's it. Just keep asking him questions that he can't answer and he'll become unglued real fast. I know. I experienced first hand at a membership meeting. I kept asking questions about the Baltimore move and the crime rate in the area surrounding the Inner Harbor. It was classic.

I have my ballot sitting here. I really need to know who supports moving voting to an online trusted 3rd party, and who supports further upgrades to the registration system. Will Call was a good start but HMGS can do better.

So I just got my ballot today (the soggy wilds of Canada) and have voted. From reading their bios, I think we have a pretty good group to choose from. To those that do not get elected please consider running again.

As an aside, I'm with TSD101. The voting and ALL the registration should be done online. Then, with the print out and ID, just show up and get your convention badge.

I'll try to answer some things… but first I want to start with this… I was asked to research some places I think might be good for moving a show. Well.. honestly and sincerely… the first places that came to mind… places close to me.. places I know about, have been to…. places I am comfortable with…. Go with what you know…. then it hit me…. oh, hell no! My wife would expect that I come home each night…..

Ok, I concede the arguments posed after I wrote…. I was being naοve again. I guess I thought that most of the time, folks go with what they know… I am not going to say lazy, but rather comfortable…

It is always good to question authority, I get that…. I am hoping though, that we will get and have gotten good candidates who are thinking of the organization and not themselves. You can call me out on friendships or whatever, but I think the current BoD/incumbents are pretty decent folks… who want HMGS to get better… some of them in different ways… for me.. I try to stay out of politics. I just hope to run a decent show. I won't hijack the thread, so I will leave it at that.

As for nominees…. I guess, all I can say.. research if you don't know the folks, trust your gut and on occasion, trust in your friendships to vote the right folks in.

I don't think there is anything wrong with picking a place that happens to be close to someone running the show (or BoD), but the proof is in the attendance. If it close and attendance is good, who cares?

I get dismayed when people get elected to the BoD and start looking for creative ways to spend HMGS' hard earned money and waste their time – like college scholarships, or History Day events, etc. While well-intentioned, they never really amount to much – especially when it comes to attendance. It uses up a board member's precious time and diverts attention from the main goals of the organization – to put on good conventions with healthy attendance. There has been so much turmoil on locations that I honestly don't see how any BoD member has extra time to devote to such things – let alone waste the money.

I'd rather see them gather important data on games, level of participation in games, what games are popular (and which are not) – you know, the core of what HMGS is about. Somehow, they never seem to find time for such things.

Was Dudley a "Next Level" guy?

Just a few comments
John and myself are the only BOD members that frequent these boards and post. John is keeping a low profile till after the election.

Fredericksburg contracts: these were all 1 plus 1 in that we had an option on the second year and if we did two years we got a price break. There was no 5 year contract. In addition these contracts could be cnx 90 days out with NO penalty.

Online voting: Our bylaws specify US mail. If we arbitrarily went to on-line the election would be invalid, null, void.

You will see on your ballot a bylaws change that allows us to move to on line voting. Tanya and I wrote that and also drafted a policy to go with the change. No current member of the Board is opposed to online/internet voting nor are any of the candidates as far as I know.

We pay a lot for each vote CAST because so few members vote (15%). We paid more this time to get a SAE and we hope we get a better turnout.

Lastly (@ Otto) if the is a cabal I would have thought I would be invited as the longest serving board member and someone who lives in Virginia.

Dear Kayjay

I only know what I was told by several sources. As I said, I neither confirm nor deny it.

The only thing I can say about it is this. Before 2000 such rumors were no even current. It is a signal of how far we have fallen that charges of such cabals have been free flowing ever since. No one would have believed it for an instant back before 2000. The very fact that responsible people can credit this is an indication of the problems we have had.

Online voting: Our bylaws specify US mail. If we arbitrarily went to on-line the election would be invalid, null, void.

You will see on your ballot a bylaws change that allows us to move to on line voting. Tanya and I wrote that and also drafted a policy to go with the change. No current member of the Board is opposed to online/internet voting nor are any of the candidates as far as I know.

Thanks for that Kayjay. I appreciate the info and you coming on TMP. I did check off the bylaw change in my ballot for that reason.

I don't know about any cabal regarding the election, but we do know the BoD attempted to move one of the cons to Crystal City, which fortunately for all, fell through. I had been told by several people that it was the BoD's intent to throw a bone to the southerners for having to leave Federicksburg. I think that would have thrown that con under the bus instead.

Perhaps just me, but having one of our cons inside the DC beltway seemed like the height of folly – and only slightly better than the choice of the BCC. "Anything but the Host" is not a good business plan, as we found out the past several years at the FCC.

Was Dudley a "Next Level" guy?

Oh heck yes.

@Historygamer….

All BS aside…. you hit the nail on the head… this isn't a you or me thing.. .it is about the attendance, regardless of location… if it is good, they will come!!!

We want it to be great no matter the size of the show….

And, you bring up some valid points.. again…. we do need to turn our eyes inward… a bit…. we need to polish up what we have… I hate to use the term here.. but make it great. Size isn't everything, quality is surely a very important part of the shows….

Damn, it sound like I am writing porn.. I am done… lol, sorry.

These are my thoughts on the matter. As mentioned before, the primary challenge for the BOD is to manage successful and profitable gaming conventions in key locations, maximizing the attendance and experience for gaming enthusiasts and Society Members. A secondary but vital goal would be providing for an enthusiastic marketplace with vendors and a fleamarket, contributing to the financial requirements of the convention and feeding hobbyists insatiable needs. Building the number of active HMGS Members is healthy for the Society and will bode well for its future existence in a changing world.

Gamers attending two conventions per year will eventually secure a loyal HMGS member base for purely economic reasons, it pays to be a member. The question is where to have these conventions and finding adequate facilities. So where are the metrics? What is the demographic location by state for the member base as it exists today?

That being said, and expressed by others in previous posts, the location of conventions will drive the number of members eventually. It's not acceptable to say we will have the convention here and people will come. Nor is it acceptable to say, lets have it here and see what happens. What is the rationale? From a corporate and just logical view, both quality and size matter, which IMO should be the position of the BOD.

So, after all the bloviating, like I said before it's time to vote.

The incumbents. Looking at their performance I would say it's better than the immediate past. Their bios are strong, and not "unstable" as one (Dudly) would imply.
Scott Landis, John Spiess, David Waxtel. Finally, as insurance against a "Coup", plus one of the best bio's for earning a vote: Michael Fatovic.

I don't mind having a HMGS convention in the South. Have it in New Orleans, Miami, Atlanta, Charleston (I like that), North Carolina, or Virginia. Have a center location, in my opinion that would be the Host in Pa., maybe Gettysburg. There will be debate here. Then one north of the center. However, the goal will have the most members attend conventions at two locations.

Vote! Hopefully next time it will be online. But for now, we need numbers to avoid any funny business!

First "cabal," then "revanche."
You're on a roll, Otto. Keep it up.
Pat Condray would have loved it.
+1 to the comments by TheKing30 and War Scorpio.

As someone who just became a member to go to historicon and fall in i find it incredibly odd that in this day and age you would not have ONLY online voting. I do marketing for a living and we have abandoned almost all of snail mail. You get no responses ever compared to only voting.

I could set up a secure simple email voting form in about 30 minutes.

If attendance is down then maybe the word needs to get out more. I have been playing games for a long time but only heard of these con about a year ago. I am not sure about paid advertsing but promoting on forums and facebook groups might be a start as well as hitting up some larger youtube channels for cross advertising.

Steve2112,

FYI, there should be a membership meeting at Historicon on Friday night. You are welcome to attend and present your views to all concerned, including the Board of Directors. Input from new members should always be welcome in any organization.

Hope to see you there.

Steve2112,

You may find it odd, but we are an odd group. As a career marketer you should know that you need understand your customer base. In HMGS Midwest, we have 10% of our membership who do not have email at all, no address. We have another 8% who do not not give their email address to outside parties. Which includes us.

We had done a split system to keep costs done. We emailed ballots out to all members who we could. We then snail mailed the remaining 18%. However all return ballots were by snail mail.

There is a very strong luddite streak amongst us histerical wargamers. Ten years from now, you'll probly have MORE people who won't have or give out thier email.

And in best Monty Python tradition………….

"And now for something completely different." Got my Historicon flyer extolling the opportunity to buy 3 different versions of the event T-shirt. However, no display of what any of the designs look like.

HMGS – ya don't see da money until I see the goods!

That is strange because when I printed off the mail in form it says to see page 3 to see what they look like. And like you I will not purchase it until I see what it looks like.

New York is a fantastic place. Probably just too expensive for what we are trying to accomplish. I don't care if it moves North. But it has to be affordable.

New York would make Baltimore look like a bargain.

I don't mind having a HMGS convention in the South. Have it in New Orleans, Miami, Atlanta, Charleston (I like that), North Carolina,

No. Those areas are served by HMGS South, Mid South, etc. Stick to the territory the convention grew in.