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"AWI French vs Revolutionary War French " Topic


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1,022 hits since 22 Apr 2017
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TodCreasey Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2017 7:31 a.m. PST

Warning: Gaming sacrilidge to follow!

We are looking to do some AWI down the club and I was thinking that this might be an opportunity to jump start some French Revolution French I was considering by collecting some French I could use for both.

Are there any French regiments that served in America that could be a morph into French Revolution regiment? I know it would have lot of wrong details but something with a blue coat and a flag swap might just do the job.

TodCreasey Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2017 7:31 a.m. PST

Warning: Gaming sacrilidge to follow!

We are looking to do some AWI down the club and I was thinking that this might be an opportunity to jump start some French Revolution French I was considering by collecting some French I could use for both.

Are there any French regiments that served in America that could be a morph into French Revolution regiment? I know it would have lot of wrong details but something with a blue coat and a flag swap might just do the job.

42flanker22 Apr 2017 7:56 a.m. PST

Blue coats might be the problem. Most Bourbon French infantry regiments wore the white coat, as many did for some time after 1789.

There were some Bourbon regiments that wore blue- e.g. regiments recruited from the Rhine borderlands like Deux Ponts (Zweibrukken) but as you say the similarities between their uniforms and those of the Garde National or subsequent blue-coated French infantry might well end there.

Post-1789 details like trousers, chapeaux bras or leather casquettes, might also narrow your options.

Personal logo Jlundberg Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2017 8:13 a.m. PST

White coats lingered in the early French Rev days. Trickier is the headgear Tricorne for AWI and Bicorne or Tarleton for French Rev

Haitiansoldier22 Apr 2017 9:22 a.m. PST

The French in both the French and Indian War and Revolutionary War wore white uniforms. In the Napoleonic wars, they started wearing blue.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2017 9:42 a.m. PST

Lauzun's Legion hussars.

Bill N22 Apr 2017 1:52 p.m. PST

The Chasseurs-Volontaires de Saint-Domingue was probably the closest a French AWI infantry regiment came to wearing a uniform similar to that worn in the middle to later stages of the French Revolution. It was a black regiment raised in Haiti.

link

If you are looking to have an army that can do double duty I think the Spanish would be a better candidate.

von Winterfeldt23 Apr 2017 3:17 a.m. PST

might be not that a great problem, you could use – like Perrys 1780 regulation French for "regular" French infantry in the earlier revolutionary wars.

French Revolutionary infantry did not wear bicornes, those are late Empire and of Imperial Guard and officers fame, French infantry in 1806 still had tricornes – so form the silhouette AWI French of Rochembeau should be ok for early Revolutionary period

Supercilius Maximus23 Apr 2017 4:08 a.m. PST

The proper name for the French headgear is the "chapeau" and its shape is quite distinct from both the tricorne and bicorne and closer to the "flattened" tricorne of the 1770s Prussian army.

42flanker23 Apr 2017 7:20 a.m. PST

Did anyone at the time ever actually say 'tricorne'- or 'bicorne', for that matter?

There were various styles of hat down the years – 'Kevenhuller'; 'Bearnois' etc but, essentially, were they not all 'cocked hats' or simply 'hats' (in whatever language)?

TodCreasey Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2017 7:46 a.m. PST

As I said I am planning sacriledge so there is some flexibility.

What I am actually going to do is paint some Napoleonic Spanish with alternative flags as use them as AWI French as the hats and coats were closer to them then the SYW French.

Thanks for advice everyone it really helped.

Supercilius Maximus23 Apr 2017 11:47 a.m. PST

Did anyone at the time ever actually say 'tricorne'- or 'bicorne', for that matter?

Surprised historygamer hasn't been along yet to tell us all it's not "tricorne" but "fully cocked" (are you all right, Jim?). I think both terms are anachronistic – "hat" was the common term at the time, I think, the basic version being "uncocked" (which is how they were supplied, as the simple "round hat" was easiest to stack and transport).

von Winterfeldt23 Apr 2017 12:33 p.m. PST

Supercillius Maximus is right, here an example, according to text an officers hat of 1786, but in my view this could be well a hat for the French Revolutionary Wars as well, as the cockade indicates – certainly not a bicorne, it has three tips.

picture

spontoon23 Apr 2017 1:30 p.m. PST

Tod;

Go ahead and do it! I'm planning on using Foundry Revolutionary French for AWI.

Donald Cameron

42flanker23 Apr 2017 11:19 p.m. PST

certainly not a bicorne, it has three tips.

Three tips, perhaps, but only two gutters. Neither tricorne nor bicorne, I'd say.

TodCreasey Supporting Member of TMP24 Apr 2017 5:11 a.m. PST

spontoon how are you reconciling the uniform colours? The French in North America wore white which I think was done with quite early on in the French Revolutionary Army.

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP24 Apr 2017 7:34 a.m. PST

What's the penalty for historical gaming sacrilege?

vtsaogames24 Apr 2017 9:00 a.m. PST

1. Break thumbs
2. Pull fingernails
3. Burn at stake

von Winterfeldt25 Apr 2017 10:12 a.m. PST

for me a tricorne, regardless, the shape of the brim – just constructing the front tip, I agree not a classical one, but it is still there.
Bicorne is a very very bad dscription and defies all the French hats carried up to about 1807 – only the later officer ones and the Old Guards would fall more or less into a "bicorne" though only in my view the Prussian Army of 1792 – 1795 did actually wear a bicorne.

In the end – hat is much better than bicorne

HANS GRUBER26 Apr 2017 6:26 a.m. PST

So which would be closer to the French revolutionary uniform; the 1776 or 1779 uniform?

historygamer26 Apr 2017 6:46 a.m. PST

"Surprised historygamer hasn't been along yet to tell us all it's not "tricorne" but "fully cocked" (are you all right, Jim?). I think both terms are anachronistic "hat" was the common term at the time, I think, the basic version being "uncocked" (which is how they were supplied, as the simple "round hat" was easiest to stack and transport"

LOL – I have only been casually following this thread. :-)

Nice photo of a hat, thanks for posting that.

Supercilius Maximus26 Apr 2017 9:38 a.m. PST

@ Hans – the 1779 uniform, definitely.

von Winterfeldt27 Apr 2017 8:25 a.m. PST

yes 1779 – very close to 1786 and very close to 1791 as well.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP13 May 2017 4:46 p.m. PST

The French in both the French and Indian War and Revolutionary War wore white uniforms. In the Napoleonic wars, they started wearing blue.

The blue uniform began with the French National Guard prior to the Revolution and was continued with the Volunteers during the wars of the Revolution. By the time of the Consulate in 1799, blue was the accepted and worn national uniform.

White was tried as an experiment in 1806-1807, but was unsuccessful and blue was reinstated. Very few line infantry units actually wore white for the uniform experiment.

For wargame scales, the use of French from the War of the American Revolution and from the Revolutionary armies shouldn't make much difference. It would, though in 54mm or larger miniatures, as there were minor, but significant differences, such as the stand-up collar that came in for the 1786 uniform regulations.

The hat in French is the chapeau, in English it's a bicorne, at least it is in the Rousselot plates.

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