"11th Century Communal Italians" Topic

These would pretty much look like Normans of the same period, correct?

Maybe a bit more of a Byzantine influence too.

So throw in a few random byzantine spearmen?

I think it would depend on the area from which your communal troops are raised. Central and northern Italian troops would be similar to Lombard or German (Holy Roman Empire influenced) while southern Italian troops would be similar to either Norman (western side of peninsula) or Byzantine (eastern side of peninsula).

If you can lay your hands on them, Ian Heath's Armies of the Dark Ages, 600-1066 or Armies of Feudal Europe, 1066-1300 (both Wargames Research Group publications) will give some line drawings based on period representations in manuscripts and artistic renderings.

Jim

Thanks Jim. I've looked at those books before, but it isn't always easy to find figures that look like those illustrations.

See Baueda's Sicilian Normans and Italo-Lombards

Miniatures are going to have "kite" shields predominating in most areas of Europe in the 11th century. Round shields are very common in Iberia and Sicily. Byzantines used "kites" too and it is arguable that the "kite" came from the Byzantine influence. The "kite" is shorter in Byzantine use, and seems to have been lengthened in western Europe.

Helmets are almost entirely the ubiquitous "nasal" with a conical profile. Rounded helmets, sans nasal, are in the minority in the 11th century pretty much everywhere.

Clothing styles are even less visible under all that armor. Warriors put their armor over their clothing in Europe. Not until the late 12th century did the "surcoat" or "gown" appear over mail. (Contrastingly, "fashion" in Muslim areas had armor covered by outer clothing, except for the most heavily armored troops, and even those often had a "gown" over the full armor.)

Italians of the period would look the same as "Normans" except in the most trivial details. And I doubt that even a large 25mm figure would show any of it except for the most OC modeler. :)

Here are some 11th century illustrations with Italian infantry:
A Caucasian & a Negro Swordsman Fighting, Mosaic from the Church of S. Maria Maggiore, Vercelli, Italy, c.1040
Relief, Arrest of Jesus, mid-11th century AD, south Italian, Tomba di Rotari, Monte San Angelo
Lombard King Rotario Dictating the Law, Codex Legum Longobardorum, 11th century
Lombard soldier in an 11th Century Exultet Roll, Museo Civico, Pisa
David in a Polirone Psalter, before 1086AD, Mantua, Biblioteca Comunale, ms. 340
Infantry on the frieze over the door of the Church of San Benedetto, Brindisi, Italy, late 11th century
Norman Soldiers portrayed in 'Charlemagne's chess set', Southern Italy, end of the eleventh century
and see A soldier in turban on a carved ivory horn or 'oliphant', South Italian, 11th–12th century, MetMuseum 04.3.177 for a list of other illustrations from Sicily or Southern Italy.

Druzhina
11th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers