Weasel | 16 Apr 2017 1:07 p.m. PST |
Taken as a value-neutral term, what defines a game as "Beer&Pretzels" for you? |
rustymusket | 16 Apr 2017 1:14 p.m. PST |
To me, a beer&pretzels game means you can learn them fast and have fun immediately. Even a non-gamer can enjoy him/her self the first time. |
Must Contain Minis | 16 Apr 2017 1:30 p.m. PST |
Something that is fun, simple and under two-hours to play. |
JSchutt | 16 Apr 2017 1:46 p.m. PST |
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JimDuncanUK | 16 Apr 2017 1:47 p.m. PST |
Am tee-total and have never eaten a pretzel so am I a lost cause. |
troopwo | 16 Apr 2017 1:49 p.m. PST |
If it takes less than four beers in order to set up your terain and lay out youe figures,,,. |
daler240D | 16 Apr 2017 2:02 p.m. PST |
Avalon Hill's War at Sea to me always defined the term. |
peterx | 16 Apr 2017 2:06 p.m. PST |
There must be beer, and pretzels must be available. Also, as some friends said, it must be a quick, easy to learn, and enjoyable game. No ammo counters, and no complicated charts with higher level math involved. |
Rich Bliss | 16 Apr 2017 2:19 p.m. PST |
Quick to set up, quick to play. 90 minutes o less. No tables, turn sequence has three or fewer steps. |
Ney Ney | 16 Apr 2017 2:47 p.m. PST |
Don't have to keep checking the rule book so can have a beer and a chat while I play. |
BAMeyer | 16 Apr 2017 2:56 p.m. PST |
If you think too hard you ruin the game |
roving bandit | 16 Apr 2017 3:38 p.m. PST |
To me any game that can be played by the group with just the quick ref page and only one person needing to have read the book before hand. If the rest can be explained well enough in turn one that by turn three we can handle it on our own it is pretty "beer and pretzel". None of us are really drinkers, but we game late hours so are usually firing on less than 100% brain power anyways. So while a game doesn't have to be overly simple, anything too complex is generally not asked for a repeat game. |
robert piepenbrink | 16 Apr 2017 3:56 p.m. PST |
Simple. Quick play. Not required to be a little "off" historically, but it's understood that strict accuracy isn't a priority as long as you get the right feel. Say 2-4 pages of rules and two hours for the game. |
foxweasel | 16 Apr 2017 4:09 p.m. PST |
This must be an American thing, pretzel? |
Weasel | 16 Apr 2017 4:40 p.m. PST |
For our international comrades, pretzels are a sort of dry, salted, baked snack, often available in bars or on airlines. |
Chris Wimbrow | 16 Apr 2017 4:57 p.m. PST |
Pretzels can also be a fat, chewy bread-like treat. But the intent I think is the thin sticks or curly twists of crunchy toasted dough which are often coated with sea salt or something like it. They don't contribute as much to greasy fingers as other snacks. And beer is considered cheap and less likely to stir up an alcohol fueled rage. Or it might just be simple rules and short games, as has been noted. |
Buck215 | 16 Apr 2017 5:02 p.m. PST |
Short, simple, fun rules that can be understood by everybody playing without having to resort to a whole lot of beer consumption, resulting in everyone speaking drunkinese… |
zoneofcontrol | 16 Apr 2017 5:10 p.m. PST |
Ask Buck Surdu: link This is actually the first set of wargame rules I ever purchased. Still use it and still love it. |
21eRegt | 16 Apr 2017 5:19 p.m. PST |
Something that sacrifices all historical accuracy for the sake of speed and dumbing down the rules. Okay for once or twice a year (we play about 40+ times) accompanied by lots of discreet eye-rolling and beer. |
Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut | 16 Apr 2017 6:55 p.m. PST |
If I can understand and remember the rules while keeping track of the game on the table, it might be a beer and pretzels game. |
Prince Alberts Revenge | 16 Apr 2017 8:36 p.m. PST |
Simple rules that stress playability and fun over accuracy and granularity. A ruleset meant to be played where the main objective is to have fun, and winning is secondary. |
Early morning writer | 16 Apr 2017 10:32 p.m. PST |
…and it is not Wine and Cheese gaming, which is a step up in complexity. Much more palatable than that heavy starch people that weighs you down and makes you wish you'd skipped a meal – for me that would be Jagdpanzer and the like. Simple, fast, easy, fun does not preclude tactical and historical – it just means rules lawyers and their associated "b"ilk don't have enough to dispute over so they stay away from the "beer and the pretzels" game. That is enough to sell me – and I hate beer. Yuck! But to each their own. |
TMPWargamerabbit | 16 Apr 2017 10:32 p.m. PST |
Games possible of being understood after drinking the beer and while eating pretzels to avoid greasy transfer to the miniatures. |
Forager | 17 Apr 2017 10:43 a.m. PST |
Simple rules that often sacrifice detail for speed of play. |
Parzival | 17 Apr 2017 11:25 a.m. PST |
A compact, easily portable game you can sit down with a drink and snacks, learn, play, and finish before you need to refill the snack bowl. Then, when you do refill the bowl, you pull out another "beer and pretzels" game and have a go at that. I've always thought of the various "microgames" as being "beer & pretzel" games: the original Ogre, GEV, Fury of the Norsemen, etc.. Quick to set up, quick to learn, quick to play. And don't argue with me about the realism, 'cause it's just a silly game. |
ordinarybass | 17 Apr 2017 5:01 p.m. PST |
Pretty much everything I play is Beer and Pretzels or no more than a step away from that. Song of Blades and Heroes, Mech Attack. Even games like Kings of War are pretty close to B'n'P Simple rules, Fast play, ideally ending in less than 2 hours. I would argue that B'n'P games aren't necessarily any less tactical and engaging than other games, but they're pretty much always less "realistic" (whatever the heck that's supposed to mean) and the empasis is on fun and play rather than attempts at simulation. |
Dynaman8789 | 18 Apr 2017 6:02 a.m. PST |
Ditto what Forager said. Examples include Victory in the Pacific, the two/one page wargames rules, and the Ogre boardgame. |
Rotundo | 18 Apr 2017 6:07 a.m. PST |
If I can pick it up after three turns I call it as such. I am your average middle aged white guy. Nothing special, no degrees or high IQ. High school educated. If I can do it in three turns, most should be able to. I am a good bell weather of such things. |
Who asked this joker | 18 Apr 2017 10:49 a.m. PST |
Learn to play in five minutes and know the finer points by turn 3. Most of my gaming is beer and pretzels. |
Ottoathome | 18 Apr 2017 1:14 p.m. PST |
"Fun" as opposed to most war game rules which are "ordeal." |
capncarp | 18 Apr 2017 6:32 p.m. PST |
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Narratio | 18 Apr 2017 7:48 p.m. PST |
Another +1 to Otto. Anything which doesn't require meticulous counting of factors. As a board game, "Risk" might be my biggest beer & pretzels game and "Stomp" or "The Creature that ate Sheboygen" the smallest. |
Ottoathome | 19 Apr 2017 1:10 p.m. PST |
Dear Capn Carp and Narratio Thank you thank you, but this thread reminds me that we have no common slang for games at the other end of the spectrum. Wine and cheese might be food for rules one notch up (or down if that's your bent) on the spectrum. I think that it should be 'Eatchur peas" games which are games which you hate doing but you do because mom tells you they're good for you and like a Command General staff School exercise or a graduate dissertation defense because it's "realistic" and you should be up on all he historical minutia. Kind of fits "Beer and Pretzels" versus "Eatchur peas." Maybe "Root Canal Games." |
Great War Ace | 23 Apr 2017 1:11 p.m. PST |
Is the game the focus, or the snacks? Which is the main excuse to get together? Full on wargames, hours long and not even always concluded, are THE REASON for the collective. Beer and Pretzels are necessary as part of the reason for the gathering. Without the snacks (the nature of which fosters idle chatter), the game would never form enough of a draw to form a gathering. So you can tell by this definition which games fall into that category. "Bring snacks!" Or don't bother coming at all………… |
Henry Martini | 23 Apr 2017 5:27 p.m. PST |
I'd say it's gaming that alters one's mood whilst simultaneously increasing one's risk of heart disease. |
UshCha | 24 Apr 2017 2:15 a.m. PST |
Surley the oposite of B&P is a an alcohol free banquet. It requires a concentration on the food that the use of Alcohol would dim the sences and lessen the long and intense experience. |