"Beer & Pretzels Rules for 10 or 15mm?" Topic

Hi guys,

I'm new to wargaming and am intrigued by the 10mm scale as a way to get fairly large armies on a reasonably sized table.

I'm looking to assemble two armies from the early part of the Dutch Revolt (c. 1570s-1590s) with the Spanish tercios against an army of Dutch and their mercenaries.

I'm looking for rule sets appropriate for the era that are of the fast-playing, "beer and pretzels" variety that don't bother with casualty removal.

Can anyone make some ruleset recommendations? I've heard Pike & Shotte and Victory Without Quarter as potential options, but don't know enough about what would differentiate the rule sets.

Also curious about the Pikeman's Lament as another simple-ish rule set, but that seems to be geared to smaller army sizes.

Would appreciate some input here!

Hi Will,

It is not quite in the "beer and pretzel" catagory but fairly simple and plays well – D&P's Baroque. It would works really well for your period. No casualty removal but need to track degraded combat value (a 1d6 works fine).

For something really simple check out the Pike and Shot rules in Niel Thomas's One Hour Wargames.

Chipco's Age of Gunpowder is very beer&pretzels. Units are 40mm square bases.

I'll second Baroque

I'll 3rd Baroque.

Appreciate the feedback so far, guys.

Being not too experienced with wargaming or the various rulesets, can you break down what the high-level differences or the pro's for the chosen rulessets are?

Baroque: each unit = a regiment or tercio (I think). Units can be disordered (and recover) or take hits on their combat number. When the last is less than 1 the unit routs and is removed.

OHW Pike and Shot has 4 unit types, infantry (mixed pike/shot), swordsmen, reiters and cavalry. Ultra simple and most games end in less than 60 minutes. No more than 6 units per side. You need ten per side and a die roll determines which ones show up.

Chipco slightly more complex than OHW.

Pikeman's Lament is a skirmish or small battle game on the cinematic side.

Can't speak for Pike and Shotte. VWQ is fun, free and all about the English Civil Wars. You might have to tweak it to account for tercios.

Also, Neil Thomas (One Hour Wargames) has the slightly more complex Wargaming: an Introduction.The Pike and Shot rules cover Spanish vs. Dutch. Games might take 2 hours. Losses are removed by the stand. If a unit loses a stand in combat, a morale roll determines if another one runs away.
If you're looking for beer & pretzel, this is it.

I would look at DBA-RRR if I were you, very simple, no markers, small forces, (but can be expanded). There's a report of a game here:

link

The rules themselves are a free extension to DBA. A quick Google will locate them either through the Yahoo FADBAG site or via Scribd

Appreciate the feedback, guys.

A lot to wade through and understand.

To clarify, while I'm looking for relatively fast playing, beer-and-pretzels rules, I'd like *some* nuance to the unit selection and game play.

If VWQ is tailored to the ECW, then it looks like the options I should consider remain Pike & Shote (Black Powder), Baroque (Impetus), and Age of Gunpowder?

What the the high-level differences between those three, in particular?

I am not familiar with Age of Gunpowder. in my opinion, Pike and Shotte is slightly more detailed than Baroque (in P&S for example Pike and Shot can be maneuvered separately and units can be deployed in a variety of formations). I am eagerly awaiting the new ECW supplement now in the mail.

Baroque has fixed units, so the ability to form different tactical formations at the unit level is not present. Otherwise P&S and Baroque are fairly similar in the level of tactical detail but I prefer Baroques game mechanisms.

I should note that the original language for Baroque is Italian and some terms and abbreviations might AT FIRST be a little confusing to English-only speakers. :-)

A hat tip to vstaogames! I somehow missed that Niel Thomas had a Pike&Shot section in his "Intoduction" book. Will definitely check it out – thanks.