"Recommendations on a points system for scenario balance?" Topic

Does anyone know of a system that assigns points to WW2 or post-WW2 equipment? I would like to put together my own scenarios, and it would be helpful if I had any sort of guide that would say that 1 tank X is worth 3 of tank Y. Thanks.

You'll be lucky.

Most WW2 rules have a points system. What rules are you using?

Flames of War and Bolt Action both have this for WWII.

Flames of War does it for Vietnam, the Arab-Israeli Wars and the late Cold War too.

Cold war commander has points.

The Rapid Fire website has a lot of pre generated points lists and a simple calculator for non listed vehicles for download.

But, "points based" games are a very poor second best to well thought out scenario games.

You can often borrow the system from another set of rules.

As a rule f thumb, I usually figure a light tank is worth one infantry squad, a heavy tank is worth a platoon, a machine gun or mortar is worth half a squad and attacker gets 1.5 times the points (with good troops) and double (with bad troops)

There is a very good point system for Modern Spearhead, available free here: PDF link

Fistful of TOWs III has a comprehensive points system for every thing from the 1920s through today. So you could even do a fun "what if there was a Tiger in 1940" type nonsense.

Rule book is worth the purchase just for the vehicle data, which can easily be transcribed in to your system of choice, including the points.

P.S. With FFT you buy one book and you're done. Flames of War (which I also like) you have to buy shedloads of army books separately….ditto Bolt Action. Not sure about Rapid Fire.

Yeah, the points formula is a bit intimidating but I think FFT3 has more vehicle stats already compiled than anything I've ever seen.

I think a good scenario throws "balance" out the window. If you have a recruit squad against a veteran platoon, the victory conditions will be very different for each side. But it is gameable, depending on such things as terrain, deployment, reserves from part of the more powerful side.

Nothing says a scenario has to be equal points. Mine rarely are. But I like a points system because (I hope) it tells me how many of Tank X are somewhat of a match for Tank Y. This is especially useful for me as I am not a tread head.

I don't want to give you 10 T70s only to discover they are little more than target practice to a PzIV. the "points" will sort of tell me this.

That way I can figure out if the Russians need to outnumber Germans by a factor of three, I can do the math.

I would echo the recommendation of the FFT3 points system. Of course there are plenty of arguments against points in general, though I side with those who say that they provide a useful starting point. But having watched the development of FFT3 from the previous version, I know that they put literally years of research into the data they compiled on everything from the 30s to the present day. Well worth buying the rules for that alone, I'd say.

A word of hedge: a point system has the advantage of letting you play with what you have--and even with your favorite toys. But none of them were carved in stone on Mount Sinai. As players become more familiar with the rules or devise new tactics, be prepared to give the assigned points a second look.

As for a weapon taken completely out of context--that Tiger in 1940 is a nice example--it might be worth much more, or much less. There's no suitable AT gun available to the Allies at any price--unless they get to bring in late war weapons too--but a lot of the firepower of a Tiger is just overkill in 1940.

For me, a points system is at best a measure of relative value in a particular context. Change terrain (Tiger in a swamp?) likely opponent (Japanese armor?) or even the normal run of missions (recon? Pursuit?) and the relative value of the men and equipment can change drastically.

Use point systems--but with caution.

Of course.

But at the end of the day, a player WITH a points system can amend it or play without it.
A player WITHOUT a points system has no choice but to do without :)

What you looking for is balance and historical force mixes. Points often do neither.

Instead consider balancing by unit and mission.

Example: a tank company (at platoon level) consists of 3 tanks but its objective marker is placed on the enemy side of the table (high aggression). The tanks must enter the board.

A leg infantry company consists of 4 Stands but its objective is kept on its side of the board (low aggression). The INF get to set up dug in.

You have historical units, balance and no need for points. Can balance on battle on the fly and players need to merely bring historical units.

For more see Combat Command…

Thomas J. Thomas
Fame and Glory Games

Like the man says points systems only really work with sterile terrain. A tank in a jungle is worth zero. Infantry in a jungle priceless. Best thing is look the actual kit that was used at the time of your scenario. This assumes youbrules have some connection to reality. Many Do not, under those circumstances you are in trouble.

Also note I have seen scenarios where they are unplayable as in a sensible time frame the units could not move the required distance, be aware of this issue when you write it.

Why not just use a real TO&E organization?

Old thread, but one way to "balance" a scenario was the one player set up the board, and the other player decided what side to enter on. (Another is to alternate placement of terrain.) Also, some fictional miniatures games had army lists, adding additional limits of what type of units you had (eg. one specialist unit per regular army unit).

You still need force balance. I spent a lot of otherwise useful time creating a system which balances forces, terrian and objectives.

Also did a version that allows you to balance historical battles by difficulty of objectives. Its in the Advanced Game of Combat Command and any of the modules (about to finally do the North African supplement).

But to re-state you must balance all three: terrian, force and objectives.

Thomas J. Thomas
Fame and Glory Games