"Basing post: big v. little, materials, dioramas, etc." Topic
17 Posts
All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.
Please don't make fun of others' membernames.
For more information, see the TMP FAQ.
Back to the Game Design Message Board Back to the Ancients Discussion Message Board Back to the Medieval Discussion Message Board Back to the Blogs of War Message Board Back to the Basing Message Board
Areas of InterestGeneral Ancients Medieval
Featured Hobby News Article
Featured Recent Link
Featured Showcase Article
Featured Workbench Article
|
Great War Ace | 31 Mar 2017 12:09 p.m. PST |
Well, we couldn't be more "worlds apart" on this one. I love individually based miniatures. And the "fiddly" negative side is worth it, of course in my humble opinion. Sabot or movement tray, temporary bases, are the compromise. I never wanted to game with mini dioramas in the first place, so I don't put shrubbery or meadow flowers or rocks on my bases. I do add textured "grass" quite often, especially on cavalry bases, but not always. The things I must have in gaming are skirmish options, with each individual figure perceived as an individual. In my armies, quite a few individual figures have developed personalities over the years. This is especially true of the figures that represent leaders of units. And I have selected figures to use in RPGs, so ever afterward, they are associated with that character. The other thing about skirmish gaming is of course that it is one on one. Group basing is impossible to do that with. I have always preferred skirmish over massed battle anyway. So even the "battle scale" of our massed battle rules play like a monumental skirmish game, with combat resolved between individuals. I won't have two collections, one for massed battles and one for skirmishing……….. |
Piquet Rules | 31 Mar 2017 1:00 p.m. PST |
And I'll side with Queen Catherine. Virtually everything GWA wants in his games/collections is not what I'm looking for in mine. To each his own! |
Visceral Impact Studios | 17 Apr 2017 8:00 p.m. PST |
I went through the same thing recently with 28mm figures. I also posted here several months ago seeking advice. 80mm wide seemed ideal but initially I went with 60mm wide to be consistent with a friend's collection. As I based more and more troops, it just didn't look right. I based infantry in two ranks which certainly helped. To Catherine's question about rules, there was something still missing. As I was writing our rules looking at the mix of frontages out there and wanting to accommodate different collections I realized that I was stuck. 60mm just wouldn't work for "mainline units". After lots of geometry and math and testing in battle, I settled in the following: Two unit sizes, company and regiment. Company is 40-60mm wide and represents generals, heroes, wizards, and other characters accompanied by their retinues, bodyguards, or minions. It also represents warmachines and large individual monsters. This frontage will work with collections from DBA, WHFB, KoW, etc. Regiment is 100-125mm wide and represents large numbers of soldiers moving and fighting as a group. This frontage will also work with the games above. In some cases a collection such as Hail Caesar can use units as is. DBA stands or those from L'Art de la Guerre and individually based figures can be aggregated to form units (which is literally what I did as I aggregated troops from my old WHFB and DBA collections). For both companies and regiments, I have recommended depth and number of figures but both are extremely flexible by design. All cav is one rank, skirmish infantry is one "rank" (really, dispersed group), other infantry is two ranks except for large pike phalanxes which are 3-4 ranks. But if you base your cav in two ranks or infantry in 4 ranks that works too. The math, geometry of battle, move distances, weapon ranges, and "rules of engagement" have all been designed to ensure a fair game between units within these parameters. It wasn't easy and took much trial and error and testing. But it seems to work just fine and is really quite immersive and cinematic. |
TKindred | 18 Apr 2017 7:05 a.m. PST |
I base my armies to 120mm frontage for Impetus, Day of battle, etc. Works forme, like the looks of it, etc. I also have a ton of individual small, tailored armies with individually mounted minis for Lion Rampant, Pikeman's Lament, Warhammer Ancients, etc. For these, I also have movement trays so they can be used for Impetus, Day of Battle, etc, if needs be. Flexible systems. I'm happy. Whatever makes you happy is what you should use. They are your minis. Play with them as you see fir=t. !!!!!!! |
CATenWolde | 19 Apr 2017 12:08 a.m. PST |
I've been collecting my first ancients, 15mm figures for "Arthurian" Britons and Saxons, and then expanding into Late Rome and Goths etc. I eventually decided to follow much the same path as you did: 60mm wide bases with a mass of figures. I use 13 figures for "shieldwall" type units (7 figures front rank, 6 figures rear rank) on 60x30mm bases, 12 figures in 2-3 ranks on 60x40mm bases for warbands, 6 figures on 60x30mm bases for skirmishers, 7 cavalry figures (4 in rear rank, 3 in front rank) on 60x50mm bases for heavy cavalry, and 5 cavalry for light cavalry. They look great, are easy to identify on the table and are pleasantly "hefty", and are easy to maneuver. Using micro-dice markers allows me to play systems like Lion Rampant which relies on single figure removal, so the only that is lost is 1:1 type skirmish gaming. On the other hand, when my son started his 28mm Romans vs Barbarians army, I bought him single figure bases and movement trays, to make sure he could play what he wanted. Both options have their strengths. |
Frank Wang | 02 May 2017 2:19 a.m. PST |
Just losing change formation? JUST? 1,if you use large base you need a wound counter for each of them.how many dice will you need for 1 game? 2,how can you put a large base onto the wall? how can you play siege with them? |
Marcus Brutus | 02 May 2017 4:42 p.m. PST |
Not a lot of evidence that there was anything like formation changes after deployment for battle. So I think losing the ability to show formation changes rightly deserves "just". |
maverick2909 | 02 May 2017 8:48 p.m. PST |
I highly disagree. If we are talking 28mm figures (which I loathe in the first place as it looks so unrealistic it's silly but do it anyway because that's what everyone else does) then single basing is the way to go. If you're worried about figures falling over, then magnetize them. If you're worried about figures poking each other, then base them in positions where their weaponry doesn't stick out. Isn't that the beauty of plastics, that you can shape their limbs how you like? At the end of the day, I'd take a group of 60 clumped men over a sparse base of 30 figures. Why? It just looks more realistic. Battles involved THOUSANDS of men. My 120 figure 28mm army just looks stupid on the table when you stop to think about it. The closer together I can get figures the better. If I want some highly modeled and detailed stuff I usually put a lot of work into buildings/forests/terrain. All this aside, Saga skirmish is about the only thing I find even close to historically accurate in 28mm. It's somewhat plausible in the 700's-900's to have a raid of 60 men on a small farming village. Outside of that, I put up with the standard 120-150 figure game as I like the people I play with and the damn armies cost so much it would be a sin not to play them. I cherish most however my 15mm games of 300+ figures. |
Frank Wang | 02 May 2017 11:07 p.m. PST |
personally speaking, i think i can't judge which base is good or not good. It depends on scale of the game and figures. If you want to present a epic battle, large base is the best choice. If you focus on detail of the battle,like skirmish or even normal scale of battle, individual bases are also ok. Warhammer use individual bases, kings of war, war&conquest too. they are still good games. |
Frank Wang | 02 May 2017 11:15 p.m. PST |
by the way, 28mm figure is future trend, large base is not. |
Ottoathome | 03 May 2017 6:19 a.m. PST |
Dear Queen Catherine Good article. I agree. I have three main periods of interest. Renaissance, 18th Century and Between the two world Wars. The first two are on large bases and for most of the reasons you enumerate. My bases for my 28mm to 32mm figures are much larger than yours. Generally they are 4.5 to 5" deep and 8 inches long. Cavalry are about 5" deep and 6" across. I mount sixteen to 17 cavalrymen on a stand in two ranks and 36 infantry, 2 officers, 2 color, 2 musicians, 2 NCo's and 28 infantry on a base. I couldn't care less about individual basing or smaller stands. I do it purely for two reasons, figure preservation and protection from "the claw" which is what I call war gamers tendencies to grab groups and stands like they are grabbing a handful of popcorn. I also do it because they figures look the way they did in real life in a three (or more) rank volley line. As for formation change, I simply don't consider that in the rules. It's irrelevant. My rules place the entry point of the gamer as in the level of the "general" that is, as commander of an army or major part of one. This means he doesn't get involved in formation changes, limbering/unlimbering, moutning dismounting and all that folderol. He's interested in his regiments as parts of his army that can take part in his plan and design, and all those lower levels are left for the epinomyous Leutnant Beitz and Feldwebel Bloez to puzzle out. This is especially necessary in the Renaissance where gamers like to strip off musketeer stands to make large "shootie" blocks and the pikes into large "stickey blocks." Small bases are too rough on the figures. I have many one of a kind converstions, and old figures which are almost antiques, and I don't want them broken or their weapons knocked off. I use basically 3/16" to 1/4 SBS Bristol board for the bases. Tough, strong, reasonably water proof and looks good. I also like to make little dioramas on the stands. One of the things I do is to reinforce the figures, especially cavalry with steel music wire mandrels of .501 wire. This is necessary for the cavalry as I use almost exclusively Surens and Stadden figures wich are the only realistic horses made, and they are in scale so their ankles are small an their bodies in proportion. I drill u- through the base and into the underside of the horse. I cut a piee of piano wire About an inch and a quarter long and bend it into an "L" shape. The long shank goes up through the hole in the base into the body of the horse and is expxied in. The short shnank goes into a groove carved in the base (or in the SBS Bristol plate and likewise glued in. This makes the horse quite rigid. I will also do the same to infantry figures, bout six of them to put on each side of the formation where they could get bent the most. The Dioramas I do are little scenes behind the three ranks, or in a touch here and there. For example behind one unit there was room to put a lieutenant and a sergeant sitting behind the three rank firing line sitting down and playing chess on a small table. In another, the Floatsam and Jetsam Regiment, (the Princessly Marines) there is on the side a sergeant pusing a wheelbarrel with a large tub with two seals in it (that's their navy seal team). One project I am finishing now is a militia regiment, only the militia are NOT in battle formation but on six small stands (but still 4 by 3" large which are the skirmisher stands size, but they are on their Sunday Militia picnic. Six figures are gathered around a groaning table of food eating and drinking. Six more are in a close formation with their officer, color, and musician having the regimental portrait painted. Six more are shooting at a target for a turkey, six more are walking past a part of a tent with two of the local girls attempting to entice some of the boys in. six more are playing at ten pins, six more singing around a clavier, and six more watching a performance of a play or opera with stage scenery. As you can see I have had to make two militia regiments. One of the other light infantry regiments "the Annheuser Bushwhcakers" has five stands of light infantry, but one of them has a huge oak tree on it with a large stone by its side, on the stone is a "Dan'l Boone" figure peering off into the distance, shading his eyes, while four of them are firing on the front of the stand, and another Dan'l boone figure is keeping score on a slate-board hung on the trunk of the tree. Finally there are the Mackattack Indians all in normal poses, but on a sixth stand there are rocks and bushes. Four Indians are firing out the front of the stand, but two of them are looking backward over the bushes where there is a couple "En flagrante delicto" . As for skirmish games… I abhor them. I'm just finishing my wagon trains for two armies. These are 10 wagons each. All scratchbuilt from balsa and basswood and strips of metal (including the harnesses for the draft horses which are from TOOB. Now I have to put on the "accoutrements" . The wagon wheels are from O guage railroad parts, and the loads of the wagons are from the same source decked out in labels showing contents, tents, fancy chests and baggage. I'm working now on the drivers, but also the escorts and persons on the side marching along with the wagons. These are usually odd figures left around on the table top and painted up (I've found this is a good use for spare figures) but some surprises as well. One wagon will have a bunch of business girls advertising their wares, but one will have the back down with a little 'tailgate party going on. Another will have the figure walking on the side a 50's waitress from a drive in on Roller skates. No need for markers Wang. Remember that the game I play has the person enter as a "general" You don't care about individual figures. The whole unit fights as one. You don't take off casualties, the whole unit is there at full powers, debilitated in some way, or eliminated. My Renaissance armies are even more massive. As I use Ral Partha stuff, the 36 man stand above is elongated a little and has 32 musketeers, 25 pikemen and five colors, officers and musicians on the same stand for the Landsknechts. A Swiss pike block has 72 on a huge 6 by 7" stand. Looks great with the large banners flying over them. I want my armies on the table top to look like those that the painters showed on their canvasses. |
greenknight4 | 18 May 2017 6:03 p.m. PST |
I have to say that as most of my troops are based on these double wide bases I really like your idea of putting some higher points on your bases. I must give that some thought. TY |
greenknight4 | 18 May 2017 6:04 p.m. PST |
TKindred and I think a like |
|