"The night they drove old Dixie down? Was" Topic

Fall of Richmond
Burning of Atlanta
Sherman's war crimes towards the coast

Fall of Richmond
Burning of Atlanta
Sherman's war crimes towards the coast

Fall of Richmond
Burning of Atlanta
Sherman's war crimes towards the coast

I'm thinking Fall of Richmond. Stoneman's raid was also about the same time. The rest of the song occurs after that event and talks about life in the South after the war.

I second Fall of Richmond/Appomattox timeframe and Stoneman's Raid as key elements of the song's context. Good account here of Stoneman's Raid, which connects to the Danville train lyric: link

I'm assuming the bells ringing in the song refers to northern reactions to news of Lee's surrender, and/or it could be inspired by the post-war practice of ringing the town and church bells on April 9th for four minutes (one minute for each year of the war) to commemorate the anniversary of Lee's surrender. The ringing of the bells was a big thing during celebrations of the 150th anniversary on 9 April 2015.

The lyrics place the song in 1865 and say, "Richmond had fell." I've never imagined it meaning anything but the fall of Richmond and the end of the war.

Dixie was in trouble well before the first shot was fired.

And point three has a typo, for war crimes please substitute "triumph".

All said the world owes a debt of gratitude for the USA and CSA. For the war was the saving of democracy and freedom for all!

I forgive Joannie.
She didn't have the words in front of her and mis-heard "Stoneman's" as "so much".
For years I thought it was deliberate, but it was a Mondegreen.

The song is intended to evoke the mood of what it was like to be in the defeated South at the end of the war rather than to refer to a specific incident. While it has specific historical markers, they don't match up well with the historical narrative.

The most obvious is the association of the Fall of Richmond with May 10, 1865. It is true that Richmond had fallen by that date, but it had fallen more than a month before. May 10 was better known as the day President Davis was captured.

Trying to track down which railroad Virgil worked on is just as fun. The Virginia & Tennessee was hit by Stoneman twice, once in 1865, and was hit by others. This fits the narrative…except it didn't operate a train to Danville. The Piedmont did operate a train to Danville, but I believe Stoneman's 1865 raid was the first time it was hit. Stoneman didn't hit the Richmond & Danville, although others did.

Then there is the question whether Lee was in Tennessee between 1865 and his death.

You don't question lyrics, like you don't question Hollywood. As soon as you do, the magic goes.

But thanks for the thread… I'd only ever really heard Baez so didn't know about Stoneman.

So is the line "there goes Robert E Lee", or "there goes the Robert E Lee"?

….was….a song by the band….successfully covered by Joan Baez.

Richmond of course is meant. Virgil's RR is probably
the Richmond and Danville RR, which Jeff Davis used
to flee Richmond.

The Richmond and Danville RR was incorporated into one
of the many RR systems which became the Southern Railway
system, of the 'Wreck of the Old 97' fame (the train
derailed at the Stillhouse Trestle, near to Danville).

The song was written by Robbie Robertson, a Canadian of Mohawk heritage, from Toronto. He wrote the song during the 'Music from Big Pink' period, when the Band lived in Woodstock, NY. He mentions it in his memoir, 'Testimony' in connection with Arkansas-born drummer Levon Helm.

"I told Levon I wanted to write lyrics about the Civil War from a southern family's point of view. 'Don't mention Abraham Lincoln in the lyrics' was his only advice. "That won't go down too well.' I asked him to drive me to the Woodstock library so I could do a little research on the Confederacy. They didn't teach that stuff in Canadian schools."

I bought "The Band" when it was released,and heard "the Robert E. Lee",though admittedly,it wasn't completely clear. But it is clear enough on some live versions. Doesn't stop the debate,as seen in the comments on youtube. And here too--there was a discussion here a few months ago. I haven't been able to find it--anyone remember the title?

Here's an older one:

TMP link

The Richmond & Danville would make sense Ed except that I don't believe Stoneman's cavalry reached it. In the aftermath of the ACW the R&D acquired the Piedmont RR and leased the North Carolina, both of which were roads that Stoneman hit. It is possible that Robertson might have been aware of where Stoneman hit, but was unaware that the R&D acquired those roads after the war. More remotely he might have been aware that R&D personnel were working the Piedmont. Most likely he referred to the Danville train and Stoneman's cavalry because it sounded good.

Good song. And Sherman's men certainly DID commit war crimes in Georgia. So did Allied troops in WWII. The good guys don't wear their white hats all the time; and to a defeated Southerner in 1865, from the entire perspective of the song, the Yankees were not considered "good guys," even if Sherman had thrown flowers at Atlanta and danced the lambada all the way to the coast.

Yeah. I always thought it was "the Robert E Lee" too, and thought it was the riverboat.

I think it's sung "there goes uh Robert E. Leeeee". That's how I've always heard it.

Here's what it says from a lyrics website:

Back with my wife in Tennessee, when one day she called to me
"Virgil, quick, come see, there goes Robert E Lee"
Now I don't mind choppin' wood, and I don't care if the money's no good

I always knew The Band's version. I didn't even know Baez covered it until a few years ago when I Googled about the song…

Since he's in Tennessee, that's why I made the riverboat connection.

Check some of the live versions.

The lyrics on lyrics sites are,unsurprisingly, often wrong. Different sites give different lyrics for the same songs,I've noticed.

BillN, it's not an historical reference of course, but
the lyric '…drove on (or served on, if you prefer) the
Danville train…' leads me to infer the Richmond
and Danville RR.

But it is, after all, only a song and written
(apparently) by someone who didn't know much about
the ACW.

As for "so much cavalry" vs. "Stoneman's cavalry",

haven't you mis-heard lyrics of songs?

Like "there's a bathroom on the right" instead of "there's a bad moon on the rise"?

Or this:

youtu.be/0PHidVqh4C8

A few years ago, there was a racehorse down here named Slow Talking Walter. The owner came up with the name after hearing a drunken Canadian in a bar singing those words when trying to sing along to Smoke on the Water. Using the same source of inspiration, the owner's next horse was called A Fire Engine Guy.

Southern Comfort (the liquour) is a terrible thing folks.

Thanks for the insight everybody. The whole song is very imprecise, which may be deliberate. Either way the sense of loss an defeat experienced really comes across in the music and lyrics.

The opening of the Erie Canal.