Beagle | 27 Mar 2017 12:03 p.m. PST |
Looking to start into this period, wonder what folks' opinions on which scale to use – – 10mm vs 15mm vs 1/72 vs 25mm? I'm looking at IABSM, Chain of Command, BKC, Rapid Fire and Fireball Forward rules. |
Rich Bliss | 27 Mar 2017 12:11 p.m. PST |
I'm confused. There is only one true scale for WWII: 1/72. 😉 |
JimDuncanUK | 27 Mar 2017 12:14 p.m. PST |
If I were starting this as a working project now I would probably go with the new release of BKC and use Pendraken 10mm (size) for my forces. The main reason for this decision would be to ride on the crest of enthusiasm currently being generated by the Pendraken Forum. pendrakenforum.co.uk I mainly play solo or with a very small group of players and I would be supplying figures, terrain and playing space. If I were to revert to playing in my local (former) club I would have to see what they are playing and follow suit. I imagine they would use a Lardie format or possibly Rapid Fire, I'm not sure. You want to have a look at your playing group and the environment in which they compete and take a direction from them. Then again you could follow the format detailed in the 'Portable Wargame' recently released. link |
Winston Smith | 27 Mar 2017 12:37 p.m. PST |
I'm into 15mm. I have never expected total realism with any wargames I play. So the so called "hub to hub" atrocity is to me a non issue. In reality the tanks are 50yards apart,so why worry about it? |
advocate | 27 Mar 2017 12:50 p.m. PST |
Chain of Command, 15mm, as it matches the ground scale and I can identify the weapons as far as I need to. Most of the (small) collection I have is 15mm, but for larger games I am regretting not having gone with 10mm. 20mm – I can't object to, since I started with Airfix. 25-28mm for WW2? Work of the devil! |
Dynaman8789 | 27 Mar 2017 12:52 p.m. PST |
I use 6mm for all of them. Using CM for Chain of Command measurement. |
RetroBoom | 27 Mar 2017 12:52 p.m. PST |
15mm. You know, God's scale… |
Dave Jackson | 27 Mar 2017 12:56 p.m. PST |
Depends what you wish to game, IMO |
dandiggler | 27 Mar 2017 1:04 p.m. PST |
1/72, there's so much out there available and it looks great on the table. I also enjoy painting that scale more than any other. And AB Figures are the best in any scale IMHO. |
Vigilant | 27 Mar 2017 1:04 p.m. PST |
The more vehicles you want, the smaller the scale. If you want armour heavy games go 6mm to 10mm. For more figures but still with a large number of vehicles 10mm to 15mm. For more skirmish type games with only 2 or 3 vehicles per side go 20mm/1:72 scale to 28mm. Also depends on how big a playing surface you have access to. Given the rules you mention I wouldn't go any larger than 15mm and would probably go with the more recent releases in 10mm as they are as good if not better quality than most 15mm IMHO. |
wrgmr1 | 27 Mar 2017 1:05 p.m. PST |
I game 1/72 using Rapid Fire rules. There are a lot of really nice figures in this scale. I find 15mm a tad to small, and 28mm is pretty much a skirmish scale. |
Andy ONeill | 27 Mar 2017 1:25 p.m. PST |
You seem to be looking at 1:1 skirmish, which is my preference nowadays. I suggest 1:72. There are some brilliant models available in 1:72. You have ab figures for example. Revell um, ready made resin. The list of options goes on and on. The scale is big enough the details are visible. When you can't find a vehicle in 1:72 then 1:76 is near enough you can get away with it ( but don't get 2 scales of the same tank mark and stick em next to one another. If you're not bothered about details or model making and plan on elements rather than individual bases then 10mm would be great. |
Larry R | 27 Mar 2017 1:48 p.m. PST |
Unfortunately I do both 28mm and 15mm. Do you want large battles? Skirmish? Company, Battalion, Corps? |
Frothers Did It And Ran Away | 27 Mar 2017 2:10 p.m. PST |
If you're thinking individual basing then 20mm is what I'd recommend. I know some people use 15mm for Chain of Command but 20mm will be easier to pick up. With the explosion of easy build plastic tank kits in the last few years either one will supply everything you might want so go with the models you like, after all you're going to have to spend the time painting them. |
Mister Tibbles | 27 Mar 2017 2:11 p.m. PST |
Everything WW2 is available in all miniature sizes now. Pick your favorite from 3mm to 28mm and have fun. Now, your next question should be about rules. Or you could just look through the forum. These questions come up about every other day. |
Joe Legan | 27 Mar 2017 2:27 p.m. PST |
For skirmish I would go either 15mm, 20mm or 28mm. 28mm looks nicer but is more expensive and takes more space to store. 20mm is available in the UK; more so than US. If in the UK I would go 20mm; if US I would go 15mm. I play solitaire thereby having to fund both armies and store them; 15mm for me. either way you should have a blast. Enjoy Joe |
Disco Joe | 27 Mar 2017 2:44 p.m. PST |
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1905Adventure | 27 Mar 2017 3:14 p.m. PST |
I've done 1/72 and 6mm and now do 15mm. 10mm is probably what I should have done, but I impulse bought those zvezda 1/100 kits every time I stopped in local hobby shop to buy flock or paint or glue and now I have a swarm. So I got more 15mm. |
robert piepenbrink | 27 Mar 2017 3:17 p.m. PST |
Find the smallest infantry scale/stand you can (a) identify by nation and type of equipment, and (b) pick up without difficulty. Now go one scale larger. You won't be sharper-sighted or more agile in ten years. |
jah1956 | 27 Mar 2017 3:35 p.m. PST |
28mm There should be laws about it why has it not been banned? As for the small stuff if you want to play with painted pins go ahead. There are the scales they are 20mm and 15mm or 100/1 to 72/1. Anything else is (I will not put anything here I am old and weak and might not survive a stay in the dawghouse). The 10mm players might be able to be saved but the 28mm are all lost souls. Last word 54mm scale is for babies. Yes I like upsetting some people |
Bunkermeister | 27 Mar 2017 3:41 p.m. PST |
I use HO 1/87 scale vehicles starting with Roco Minitanks in about 1963. I use 1/72nd scale figures starting with Airfix, also in about 1963. 250,000 troops, 5,000+ vehicles later I am not about to change scales. My aircraft are 1/72nd scale and they hang suspended from my wargame room ceiling; we have deployed as many as 65 aircraft in a single turn of a single game. My table is 16 feet long and 7 feet wide with a parallel side table 40 inches deep and 14 feet long, good for river crossings between tables with a 40 inch long bridge! Terrain is HO and 15mm, 20mm, 25mm size buildings, whatever looks good to the eye. Most of the major scales have vast selections of troops, and vehicles. Some scales cover certain areas better than others. If you like the Pacific, or Italians, or something else a little less mainstream, finding all the right vehicles and troops may be difficult. So, I would suggest you first decide what nations you want to wargame, then see what scales have figures and vehicles in that size. Next decide about painting figures and assembling vehicles. Larger scales often mean putting model kits with dozens of parts together, micro arms might be one or two pieces. Larger scales mean painting figures, although I don't paint figures much, but that's not the norm. How much space do you have? How much storage space? How much money? One HO scale low production resin kit could be $30 USD for a single tank, but plastic figures only a dime. A couple bucks one new piece of railway artillery in micro armor that might be a thousand dollars in 28mm; if you could even get it. What about ships? In micro armor 1/300th or so, you can get infantry, tanks, ships, and planes all in about the same scale and use the Bismark and a Stuka, Panzer II, and infantry all together. Hard to do that in the larger scales. Good luck and enjoy. Mike Bunkermeister Creek Bunker Talk blog |
Weasel | 27 Mar 2017 3:41 p.m. PST |
I basically like all of them, but 15mm is what I tend towards. Base 3-5 and they look like a decent fire team, they're big enough to skirmish with and you can play with fairly reasonable weapon ranges on the table. A platoon with some extra stuff also lets you get started without spending a fortune. |
Leon Pendraken | 27 Mar 2017 3:54 p.m. PST |
Beagle, if you think 10mm could be an option for you, drop me an email through the site and we'll send you a sample out to look at: pendraken.co.uk/Contact.aspx |
Patrick R | 27 Mar 2017 4:06 p.m. PST |
10mm and 28mm, best of both worlds … |
daler240D | 27 Mar 2017 4:12 p.m. PST |
10mm is the sweet spot if you want vehicles (and you should!!). Pendraken for figures and Magister Militum for vehicles. |
14th NJ Vol | 27 Mar 2017 4:20 p.m. PST |
15mm for platoon level (1 vehicle = a platoon ). 28mm for 1:1 skirmish. Even though I think for skirmish 20mm is awesome even though I don't partake. |
Father Grigori | 27 Mar 2017 4:24 p.m. PST |
Depends really on a) what kind of game you want, and b) how much space you have. 1/72 or 28mm is great for skirmishes, but with a lot of armour and/or ifantry, 6mm is a far better option, IMHO. 6mm will also let you play 1:1 battalion level infatry games without too much difficulty (apart from moving everything around…). |
John Thomas8 | 27 Mar 2017 4:41 p.m. PST |
1/72 is my preference. But I don't do divisions per side, either. IABSM is about as large as I'm interested in going. |
Weasel | 27 Mar 2017 5:15 p.m. PST |
I'll agree with Daler – if you want a lot of vehicles, the savings in space and cost for 10mm versus 15 or bigger is quite significant. |
Lion in the Stars | 27 Mar 2017 5:18 p.m. PST |
Well, I started WW2 gaming with Flames, so I'm pretty firmly committed to 15mm. I hang out on The Guild Wargamers forum with Piers and the rest of the Battlegroup gang, so I'm very tempted by 1/72 scale. But 1/72 is as big as I'd go for WW2 gaming. 28mm is for maybe a squad per side, maybe a platoon. Definitely not a company per side! 3mm (1/600) or 6mm (1/300 or 1/285) can work, but I have a hard time IDing vehicles at that scale. And don't even ask to pick out which trooper is carrying the Bren/BAR. 10/12mm is something I don't have any experience with, except as aircraft or Gundam models. |
zoneofcontrol | 27 Mar 2017 5:48 p.m. PST |
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Saber6 | 27 Mar 2017 6:02 p.m. PST |
15mm. Allows me the size of forces I like and I can use the same terrain I use for other periods |
jdginaz | 27 Mar 2017 6:10 p.m. PST |
If I were to start fresh I would go with 10mm for IABSM, it is close to the true ground scale but still big enough for me to see. For CoC I would go with 20mm for the same reason that I stated for 10mm & IABSM. |
Piquet Rules | 27 Mar 2017 6:20 p.m. PST |
Play the scale that you prefer, and fits your budget. Ignore out of hand anyone that says "don't play xxmm". |
Mark 1 | 27 Mar 2017 6:50 p.m. PST |
What I suggest you should do is select the scale that pleases you most. Now what pleases you most might take some consideration on your part. I suggest considering: - The aesthetics: some scales might look better to you than others. - The playability: by this I mean can you get a game together? If you are in with a local group, what do THEY play? Being the only guy in your area at your scale means solo, or nogo. - What unit scale do you like: Do you want your game to explore how well Big Jim throws grenades and Sgt. Peters mows 'em down with his SMG, or how the 1st and 2nd platoons advanced to close assault range under the covering fire of 3rd platoon and the company weapons platoon, or how a 6 battery stonk tore a hole in the defenses for the 1st battalion to role right through? For myself, I do most of my gaming at 6mm (smaller than the choices you listed). My games, when I can gather enough players, tend to be battalion+ forces. But I don't like to put a label on one model to tell me it's not what I see, that it's a platoon, or a troop, or something more … I like to SEE multiple companies of tanks or infantry maneuvering on my battlefields. That said, I have also played games with individually based figures at 1/72nd / 20mm scale, and I found them quite enjoyable. It's kind of a shame that I never found/met any wargamers who played at that scale until after I had more than 20 years of collecting, painting and gaming invested in 6mm. The collection of figures and vehicles I had in this scale by the time I was 12 would have served me well, but alas when I transitioned from "pew-pew-pew" to "you hit on a 4, +1 because he's moving" in a big way by the age of 15 or 16, my 1/72nd collection was mostly expended as BB gun targets. I did start a small collection of 1/72nd several years back after one or two really fun games. Who knows, maybe I'll get back into it again if I find a group I like to game with. But for now, for me, it's all about 6mm. Your mileage may vary. -Mark (aka: Mk 1) |
Calico Bill | 27 Mar 2017 9:49 p.m. PST |
15mm here. Some 28mm for skirmish, but that's pretty rare. |
Martin Rapier | 27 Mar 2017 11:10 p.m. PST |
Rapid Fire and BKC are aimed at battalion to Brigade sized actions, the others are company level. Some people prefer to use smaller scale figures for larger scale actions. If I was starting from scratch, I'd do the lot in 15mm, as I find it to be a good compromise of cost, looks, use of storage space and ease of transportation. But I not starting from scratch, and have 6mm, 15mm, 20mm and 54mm built up over the decades. I am not a fan of 10mm, it has always been a niche scale and always will be. Well, you did ask for opinions. |
Tiberius | 27 Mar 2017 11:22 p.m. PST |
1/72Nd scale, truly The best |
Rod I Robertson | 28 Mar 2017 1:06 a.m. PST |
Beagle: As you have seen from the spectrum of opinion above there is no correct answer to your question. It really boils down to what you want to do with the minis you do choose. The bigger the level of battles then the smaller the minis you should consider. If you want to play small skirmishes of a squad or two per side where one figure represents one soldier or one vehicle then the larger minis look the best (25mm- 54mm). If you're looking for several platoons per side then the intermediate scales (15mm – 25mm) are likely the best option for you. If you intend to fight reinforced company level battles then smaller minis should be chosen like 10mm – 15mm. If you want to fight battalion sized or larger battles then very small minis (3mm, 6mm or 10mm) are the way to go. The cost of minis goes up per unit as your mini-size choice gets larger but the number of minis you will likely buy goes up as mini-size drops. So there may be a false economy in choosing smaller minis unless you have the discipline to keep the opposing forces small in number. Most gamers find they have an inner Cecil B Demille to contend with as they gravitate towards larger and more complicated forces in pursuit of grand spectacle! Storage space availability must be a concern if you want to collect an extensive collection of minis. Also worth pondering is the availability or unavailability of other players who would help to buy minis or not. If not, it could make it necessary for you to collect minis of many nations on your own, if your interest lends itself to variety. That will be costly and smaller minis then become more attractive both economically and ergonomically. The size of the playing area available to you is also a consideration to factor into your choice; the bigger the playing area, the bigger the figures you can use comfortably on it. Finally you should consider the availability and cost of terrain features like walls, fences, buildings, railway infrastructure, trees, rivers, etc. as these will be necessary too, unless you scratch build them all. Such accessories can be very expensive and expense rises with corresponding figure size. Having said all that, my choice years ago was 15mm for the greatest flexibility of game size but had I not committed until now I would likely go with 10mm as I like large tactical battles on up to a 10' X 7.5' playing area. Cheers and good gaming, whatever scale you choose. Rod Robertson. |
PiersBrand | 28 Mar 2017 1:23 a.m. PST |
I think you are best off with deciding what you want from your toys (in line with any existing scenery you may already have). For me its all about the visual look of the game, combined with a look of historical authenticity…
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UshCha | 28 Mar 2017 1:33 a.m. PST |
We bought a smaple of every scale and had rhen side to side, we chose 12mm 1/144 is supprisingly bigger than 10mm. and made our decision with them infont of us and s ide by side. The crunch for us was the acceptability of the smallest vehicle we wanted to use. If we want to fight infantry on its own (more or less). We 1/72 as for a max of one or two platoons you can use a 6 by 4 table. A game that size in 10mm/12mm is only 2 ft by 3 ft. We fight complex games around a battalion or more but the action is not everywhere at once and it lasts a number of eveings. These are 12mm as the ground scale allows tanks to be effective outside dence terrain where they are vulnerable and limited capablity. It is choice about what you can store, where you play and the scale of the battle you want to play. |
10mm Wargaming | 28 Mar 2017 2:17 a.m. PST |
Play the scale that you prefer, space storage looks etc For me its 10mm. Take care Andy |
hurrahbro | 28 Mar 2017 2:52 a.m. PST |
Opinion? Me… 12mm (mostly Pendraken) N guage scenics, Japanese releases in 1/144, all in the "there abouts" and works OK for the larger battles. N guage compatible scenics, 1/72 (it IS gods own scale) for more company/platoon level games. Plastics are cheap, metals fill the gaps. Formally available on the high street, HO/OO railway scenics. All others are false gods! 15mm, no cheaper than 1/72, often much more expensive. Pre ww1 it works fine but for WW2, no. (plastic soldier company being the exception, making it actually affordable unlike battlefront). What is it with all this 28/32mm stuff of late? Have you all gone blind? Skirmish? Yes, but you do not need a platoon of tigers in that scale. I'd recomend you go for the 12mm of you have no legacy issues (by that, what is played localy) Rules, BKC works well with the 10/12mm, there is practicly nothing you cannot find in the scale, the army packs from Pendraken are very good value. Air support from 1/144 or 1/200 aircraft means aircraft can pull double duty for air to air games. Have gamed the scale in Rapid Fire as well. Bases of "fire teams" replace teh induvidual soldiers. Ranges "look right" with no change. Definate mismatch between ground scale of vehicles and artillery templates. |
uglyfatbloke | 28 Mar 2017 7:06 a.m. PST |
If you can do wonderful painting like Piers, 20mm has so much choice. If you can't (like me) 28mm is easier. |
miniMo | 28 Mar 2017 8:47 a.m. PST |
I've been at this awhile and eventually and repeatedly have broken down and added more and more scales. My favorite and largest collection is still 1/87 vehicles with a mix of plastic infantry sizes (1/87 vehicle crew, 1/76 & 1/72 foot) and 1/100 airplanes. I enjoy this very much for Blitzkrieg Commander — multiplying movement rates by 1.5 and leaving blast area templates unmodified. I greatly prefer playing scenario games over points-value games, so I anticipate providing all forces and it doesn't matter if no one else around here collects 1/87. Because of price, I opted for 1/100 vehicles to build up my Girls und Panzer teams. These won't be interchanged with my historical forces, so the different scale was not an issue. I have always preferred plastic models, and there is a great assortment of nice plastic available in this scale now and the PSC and Zvezda kits are superb. And obscure vehicles from Shapeways at this scale pricey, but way affordable at this scale than larger ones! Visually, I still would have preferred 1/87 for this, but I am happy with the balance of cost and the fact that the modelling details are still pretty visible when out on the gaming table. I got some 1/56 vehicles and 28mm figures for Bolt Action. This is fine for primarily infantry skirmish fighting. And I got some 1/285 because the club was doing games in this scale for awhile. Inexpensive and fun to paint, but I can not distinguish any of the infantry nor most of the tank types when they are out on the gaming table! For my druthers, I would not go smaller than 10mm for a tiny scale. |
wrgmr1 | 28 Mar 2017 8:50 a.m. PST |
Stunning as always Piers! |
Beagle | 28 Mar 2017 9:28 a.m. PST |
Thank you all for the excellent comments. I currently have 160+ tanks painted in 1/144 (bought at WalMart for a quarter each when the 'no lead paint' law went into effect 10 years or so ago) (but no infantry), about 75 painted infantry and about 15 tanks (and another 50 unpainted infantry) in 15mm, and like 140 tanks, 80 other vehicles and 14 guns (but no infantry) painted (with another 20 tanks and like 3800 unpainted infantry [pretty scary actually]) in 1/72. I am really looking for something that I can use for both battalion and skirmish using the same figures – I started to migrate from both 1/144 and 1/72 to 15mm with that in mind but am getting cold feet. Storage is not really an issue and I set up a ping pong table in the garage to play on (with another 4 x 6 table permanently set up in the attic). I have on the order of 40 HO scale buildings built (heirloom from my Dad's model railroad layout) and a bazillion trees, hills, rivers etc. mostly scaled to 15mm ancients (my actual forte) which work okay. My local group is all over the map, with not much agreement on scale and nobody having very many figures. So with all that additional information…. should I ditch my 1/144 and 1/72 collection in favor of 15mm? |
Marc at work | 28 Mar 2017 9:33 a.m. PST |
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Marc at work | 28 Mar 2017 9:36 a.m. PST |
And if your local group is all over the place, take a stand and lead them. Do 1/144 for large scale tank actions, and 1/72 for when it gets personal. +1 to Piers and Warwick and the Battlegroup series |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 28 Mar 2017 9:36 a.m. PST |
15mm and 28mm are popular mainly because of FOW and BA, but since the rules you're interested in are none of the above, choose any scale you like based on considerations that are important to you. These considerations may include, but are not ranked in any particular order of importance or limited to: Visual appeal on the tabletop: Larger minis (as in 15mm and larger) tend to have more visual pizzazz and a higher "wow" factor especially if you have good painting skills. Size of the battle you wish to play: Do you like small firefights (skirmishes) at squad to platoon level based on 1:1 or one figure = one man, or larger battles where smaller miniatures would better fit the standard sized table (typically 4' by 8')? Do you want to recreate large tank battles like the Battle of Kursk? If so, go with one of the smaller scales (10mm or smaller). A third consideration has less to do with what you like and more to do with what others play with in your gaming group, unless you're going to provide your opponents' forces as well as your own. What scale(s) do your friends and gaming group commonly play? If there's more than one scale they play then you have more than one scale option. |