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"Last Century of the Ottomans:Velestino 1897" Topic


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1,058 hits since 25 Mar 2017
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KTravlos25 Mar 2017 9:51 a.m. PST

And the penultimate scenario for our Last Century of the Ottomans, Bloody Big Battles, Campaign is done! You can find the Video AAR at

link

With Respect
Konstantinos Travlos

mghFond25 Mar 2017 11:04 a.m. PST

Fun campaign to follow, enjoy your reports very much.

Keep up the great work.

You giving any thought to playing out the Balkan Wars scenarios?

KTravlos25 Mar 2017 12:28 p.m. PST

As the scenario writer for the Balkan Wars (with help by Chris) I will have to playtest the whole lot :p So I am definetly playing them, but at a more leisure pace than the campaign.

Grelber25 Mar 2017 7:24 p.m. PST

Very good! I've thought about trying to do a Velestino scenario, but never gotten to it.
The line drawings in your AAR are nice. I've seen the one of the officer leading the charge before, but many of the others are new to me. Where did you find them?

I'll be interested in reading about the Domokos scenario.

I'm afraid this is one of the wars I get a bit passionate about. Mainly this manifests itself in the form of a great desire the whack the Greek leaders upside the head with a two by four (a sturdy piece of lumber, for those of you not familiar with American construction techniques). Domokos is a case in point. The Greeks might not have won, but I'm sure they would have done better if their leaders hadn't convinced themselves that the Turks would not attack since the two sides and the Great Powers were negotiating a cease fire somewhere (Constantinople, perhaps?).

Grelber

KTravlos26 Mar 2017 2:01 a.m. PST

Hi Grebler, gld you liked!

On the photos. Most are from the net and google seraches in Greek, Turkish, and English. Some of he Ottoman photos are from Art books bought at the Dolmabahce Palace and the

On the scenarios. All these are Bloody Big Battles Scenarios. You can find the Velestino scenario either in the scenario page of my blog, or the BBB Yahoo Group. You can find the map of the Domokos scenario at the BBB Yahoo Group. The full scenario is at the BBB European Battles supplement.

The more I read the more I am willing to give a pass to Prince Constantine. He did make elementary mistakes in letting the Ottomans outflank him in every battle. But he was also dealing with a problematic army. Sure it could win as it did in Velestino and Gribovo, but once the issue became one above the simple brigade level, it was shockingly bad.

To be frank in general the modern Greek Armies until 1936 were really bad in defensive operations. There was a distinct lack of understanding the use of reserves, or protecting against wide outflanking maneuvers (The Ottomans in 1897, and the Turks in 1919-1922 did exactly that, as did the Germans in 1941).

Troops were markedly unwilling to entrench and dig in. Even in 1922, the crucial southern flank of the Army of Asia Minor was protected by shallow rifle pits made by rock walls (echoes of 1821).


I would even go as far as point out that with the exception of the 3rd Battle of Yanya/Bizani even in attack the Greek army tended to prefer the direct frontal assault. It was really a bad army in maneuver or reacting to maneuver.

These only changed in the 1936-1940 period.

ChrisBBB2 Supporting Member of TMP26 Mar 2017 2:29 a.m. PST

Good work! I'm enjoying your campaign.

I agree that your Velestino is a nice tabletop teaser and a good 'training scenario' for players to learn the game. It's a pity that some good Greek shooting and bad Ottoman movement dice meant your Ottoman players never managed to complete the reconnaissance phase, but that's always the risk with small games and few units, that a couple of bad dice can make a big difference.

Chris

Bloody Big BATTLES!
link
bloodybigbattles.blogspot.co.uk

KTravlos26 Mar 2017 7:20 a.m. PST

Well the problem is that they did not use march columns good enough and did not keep their mind on objectives. When I play ottomans in this scenario I always deploy as close as permitted to the Greeks, and I always send the guns in limbered. Myabe I shoot once to get a disruption but that is it. Everything in to get the recon. Once that is done you can worry about winning :p.

Nottingham Wargames03 Apr 2017 2:25 p.m. PST

Hi to all you lads over in Istanbul!

Great terrain and battle report. Very enjoyable and inspirational. Great to see such an interesting conflict being gamed so effectively.

KTravlos10 Apr 2017 4:31 a.m. PST

Thanks

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