greghallam | 21 Mar 2017 9:22 p.m. PST |
Years ago when i played Tactica, I was struck by Arty Conliffe's comment that he hadn't included rallying as an option, because it rarely happened in Ancients battles – once a unit broke, that was it. But what about other periods? Are there actual examples of units breaking and fleeing , then rallying again and re-entering battle? Or is it more of a gaming mechanic to keep players units on the table for longer? |
Editor in Chief Bill | 21 Mar 2017 9:39 p.m. PST |
Definitely happened in the ACW. |
Grelber | 21 Mar 2017 9:51 p.m. PST |
Didn't some of Morgan's men rally at Cowpens and help with the counter attack? If you had troops on the field in good order, the routed units might rally behind them, if not hard pressed. Grelber |
Mark Plant | 21 Mar 2017 9:58 p.m. PST |
It can help to think of units that are "broken" but not yet taken a rally check as merely potentially broken -- it's just you as a general don't know. If you ask the question "Did units withdraw from the line under pressure without orders, only to return?" then the answer is a definite yes. For sure, an actually broken unit would not return. But there are all sorts of states between that and fully functional. An officer loses his nerve, but others might take over. The men lose their nerve and it takes a while for the officers to regain control. If your rules have a forced withdraw without breaking, then there is no need to have a break and rally option. But few do that. |
greghallam | 21 Mar 2017 10:07 p.m. PST |
Mark, they are good points. So in other words, breaking & rallying in wargames is a convenient abstraction for loss of control of a unit – which may be temporary or permanent. |
Henry Martini | 21 Mar 2017 11:58 p.m. PST |
There's a very good reason for Arty's design decision: in the ancients period the first thing fleeing troops would have done is drop their shields and more cumbersome primary weapons, such as pikes and spears, and remove heavy helmets and armour. It's hard to reform a unit that no longer has the weapons that give it its combat function and power and the protection that gives it the confidence to face the enemy. A man can still run reasonably fast when encumbered only by a musket. |
WarWizard | 22 Mar 2017 5:28 a.m. PST |
Didn't Washington accomplish this at Battle of Monmouth? |
davbenbak | 22 Mar 2017 6:12 a.m. PST |
An interesting distinction between rallying troops in ancient and more modern eras. I think Keagan did a great job of describing the psychology of ancient warfare and the evolution of command and control in his books. |
Mick the Metalsmith | 22 Mar 2017 6:19 a.m. PST |
We more often fail to use rules to allow units that reach the point of balking--still formed but unwilling to advance. Keegan wrote about veteran troops often reached this state before green troops. |
Extra Crispy | 22 Mar 2017 6:41 a.m. PST |
Morale rules in games are usually designed to allow for those states between good order and routed. Like saving throws – they are there to get the odds right with a d6. They don't "represent" anything directly. Likewise disruption, disorder, pinned, shaken, etc. |
vicmagpa1 | 22 Mar 2017 7:02 a.m. PST |
happened many time. Washington did rally at Monmouth. Custer's 7th Michigan after the initial assault on Stuart during Gettysburg. Sherman and on. question is how do you represent this. it was not often, but it happened. |
Frederick | 22 Mar 2017 8:27 a.m. PST |
For sure units rallied in the gunpowder era But for Ancients I have to agree, especially for medium/heavy infantry – if they broke from close combat, they are most certainly not going to rally – they are almost certainly going to suffer a lot of losses as they break |
DrSkull | 22 Mar 2017 9:21 a.m. PST |
In the climactic battle of Caesar's war against the Helvetians (Commentaries, book I) the Helvetians fail in their assault against Caesar's line, break and flee to a nearby hill. When the Helvetian allied rear-guard arrives on the Roman flank the Helvetians are encouraged, turn around and charge back down the hill at the advancing Romans. Sure sounds like rallying to me. I've taught this passage for the last 20 years, so it immediately leaped to mind. |
Swampster | 22 Mar 2017 12:55 p.m. PST |
Julian is claimed to have rallied his cataphracts at Strasbourg. |
Perris0707 | 22 Mar 2017 2:04 p.m. PST |
It definitely happened in the Byzantine civil war following Manzikert. Alexious rallied his army after they had fled to win a victory at Kalavrye in 1078. |
cosmicbank | 22 Mar 2017 7:45 p.m. PST |
My troops never seem to rally maybe its because I beat them to the table edge |
Great War Ace | 24 Mar 2017 8:17 p.m. PST |
If you believe the original sources, rallying troops happened. A routed infantry unit bearing shields wouldn't drop them instantly. That would be inviting a spear in the back. In fact, Normans routing at Hastings "covered their backs" with their shields; these were mounted troops, specifically stated. Duke William rallies units several times during Hastings. Crusader tactics included (a la Byzantine example) an infantry line behind which cavalry could regroup and rest. Tacitly is was understood that cavalry which had not won the battle might be used again after withdrawing (routing?). At Legnano, the broken Milanese cavalry rallied and charged back into the battle, defeating Barbarossa. But yes, usually when a unit was broken it stayed that way. In our game we don't allow a morale recovery roll if the enemy is pursuing, or threatening pursuit, within specified separation distances. That means that usually a routed unit is pursued to destruction. |
Codsticker | 25 Mar 2017 8:34 a.m. PST |
In our game we don't allow a morale recovery roll if the enemy is pursuing, or threatening pursuit, within specified separation distances. That means that usually a routed unit is pursued to destruction. That strikes me as realistic. |
Henry Martini | 25 Mar 2017 12:41 p.m. PST |
A shield is no particular encumbrance to a mounted man because its weight is borne by his horse. That's obviously not the case for a man on foot. |
McLaddie | 25 Mar 2017 5:05 p.m. PST |
"The advance of the French columns is invariably announced by a general fire of artillery throughout the whole extent of their position; and the ordinary custom was not omitted on the present occasion. A murderous cannonade spread havoc among our ranks, whilst the attacking parties, covered as usual by clouds of tirailleurs, pressed forward with the greatest firmness and regularity. Our people had received instructions to reserve their fire till the enemy should have arrived within a few yards of them, and giving it with effect, to bring the bayonet immediately into play. They obeyed those orders to the letter. The heads of the enemy's columns were close upon our line before a musket was discharged, and then one volley was given with a degree of precision which must have astonished those against whom it was directed. A conflict now ensued, more desperate, because more completely hand to hand, then possibly the annals of modern warfare ever recorded. General Campbell's division, on the right, not only repelled the attacking column, but rushed on them when broken by its fire, drove them before it in gallant style; and charging a battery, from which it suffered severely, took, at the point of the bayonet, thirteen pieces of cannon. [p.336] The enemy, however, were veteran troops, accustomed to be broken and to recover their ranks again; and as our soldiers could not venture very far in pursuit, lest by so doing they should expose their comrades, the fugitives were enabled to rally, and to resume the offensive." Londonderry, Narrative, pp.335-6. At the Battle of Talavera Londonderry, who was Charles Stewart, a brig.-general, was the Adj-Gen. and also commanded troops from time to time, so he is knowledgeable. Book published in 1828, so not too much time to be infected by others' analyses or opinions. But the troops didn't have to be veterans to rally once broken. I must note that my entire regiment consisted of young and previously untested soldiers and that like me, not a singlestaff or junoir officer had experienced war before. Coming out of the woods with its left flank, one of the batalions…moving at the head of the column came under fire from the enemy skirmishers,.., became disordered and began to retreat in disorder, veering to the side. This disorder soon spread though my entire detachment because fear, like electricity, spread in an instant from the head of the column to its end, and my own regiment became disordered as well. Observing the shameless retreat of this disordered crowd, I galloped to the fleeing standard-bearers of my regiments, jumped off the horse, grabbed a flag and rushed with it to the spot where the detachment had to be rallied. All the other standard-bearers followed me, and in turn, the disordered battalions followed them. Upon reaching the rallying line, I ordered my adjutants to place flags at battalion distances so the soldiers could rally accordingly. This was accomplished at once and disorder was thus extinguished…As the result of my dispositions, the enemy was contained until the nightfall. Aleksey Sherbatove, Kostromskoi Infantry Regiment, Battle of Golymin, Dec. 1806. Slexander Mikaberidze, Russian Eyewitness Accounts of the Campaign of 1807 During the Napoleonic Wars troops practiced rallying from a rout, usually reforming in line. |
Weasel | 26 Mar 2017 8:18 a.m. PST |
"WIth zeal and bayonet only" talks about the rebels in the American revolution frequently running away, only to regroup and begin firing on advancing crown troops again. |