"Quality of 20mm Miniatures - What Should I Expect?" Topic

I have just started out with the hobby, initially starting with a skirmish game using the Chain of Command rules.

I chose a supplier and bought some miniatures, I won't name names yet as I am so new to this that what I am seeing might be very typical.

I have paid around £8.00 GBP-£10 for small tanks which I think it competive, but not cheap.

Now I appreciate that these are not display models, they are for wargaming but even so I am a little disappointed with them.

I have three primary observations

1 – the predominent use of resin. In most cases this is just for the hull, with turrets and tracks being in white metal. But in some cases most of the model is a single mould in resin.

2 – resin moulding seems careless with air bubbles in extremilities meaning that the corners of fenders are often missing.

3 – the moulding aren't crisp, even on the resin, the the details are quite vague.

So disappointed with lack of crispness, don't like the lack of weight, especially of those models made almost entirely in resin, and the repair of missing resin (such as the corners of fenders) can be difficult.

I particularly don't like the single mould resin models. They are so light, difficult to clean up, and have less precise detailling. I also feel they are expensive – I think £9.00 GBP is dear enough but could justify it because of the cost of the metal, the labour of moulding at collating the individual parts, but when I pay the same for a one piece resin model I feel that I have been over-charged.

Just wondering whether what I am seeing is typical or whether I should be switching supplier for my next models.

Cheers,

Nigel

Not all resin kits are the same. I'm happy to name names and give you my judgement. I think you will find Milicast crisp and very finely detailed with very few if any flaws. I am most impressed with everything I've bought from them. On the other hand you may find that Frontline have many of the flaws you list above. That said, it is surprising what a decent paint job will do to lift some of these and keep in mind you will be looking at these from a distance on a wargame table so that most of the minor flaws will be invisible. At the end of the day it is what will satisfy you.

I make AFV kits in 1/35 scale and I wargame in 20mm. I have completely different critical criteria when it comes to modelling and wargaming. I still want my models to look good, but my wargame models are not subject to anything like the scrutiny I give to 1/35.

You think that's bad!

I can think of a number of metal makes that will satisfy you with weight but you would go nuts with because of the amount of flash on the parts and have to fill gaps when you put them together (thats if you can work out what goes where as most don't have instructions!).

I'm not quite sure what you want. But to be honest, I regard your gripes as pretty trivial.

Thanks for the feedback. Just after some opinions because this is my first experience so no idea whether it is bad, normal or good.

Cheers,

Nigel

I generally avoid resin models, never really found any that did not have at least minor pitting. Most of my 20mm WW2 vehicles are either traditional hard plastic kits or ready-made die-cast. It's often possible to pick up the latter for a few pounds on Ebay. They may not satisfy the modelling purists, but they are fine for wargaming and, with a bit of work and embellishments make great display models as well.
I also game in 1/144 and again there are excellent ready made vehickes in plastic, together with decent white metal kits, although these do, as a previous poster commented, often need wirk to remove flash etc.

Nigel

I'd recommend visiting a few wargames shows to compare various manufacturers in the flesh. Generally wargames models are made by part time suppliers with nothing like the technical facilities available to the bigger model making companies, so there will be a difference in quality. You can always add weight by basing the models, or even fixing metal to the underside of resin models. As for price, remember that there is only a limited market for these models, and materials costs vary depending on outside conditions – the UK exchange rate is not helping – and they are labour incentive to make. Think about how much you value your time and then apply that to the person providing what is in reality a luxury item.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy your games.

Nigel,

Plastic Soldier Company have lots of cheap plastic kits, generally with 3-4 in a packet. Good for building up units quickly and I am happy with the quality (they have plenty of crew and kit to hang off the vehicles).

But why assemble and paint? I also use a lot of those pre-painted and assembled ones that come with magazines (sometimes pick up cheap at conventions) and the Forces of Valor line.

Just see what is available. For example, for moderns, I have an Aussie Cavalry Squadron mixing Forces of Valor (LAV25), AMER (Stryker), Trumpeter (command, engineering, LAV25) and Matchbox (105mm gun). OK, vehicles aren't quite the right variants and we don't have a 105mm variant but close enough. I have some Abrams, Bushmasters and M113A S4 to build out a small battle group.

Have a great day, FPR

Every type of material has its advantages and disadvantges.
Personally I always go for a plastic kit if its available, ok you have to build it but in the case of PSC and the like thats not much of a chore and of course you can do some fettling as you go.
With resin not much assembly required but they are sometimes a bit more fragile and you do have to do a bit of prep work, vents flash etc.
20mm is always thought of as a crossover betwen modelling and gaming just enjoy both I say :)
L

Hasegewa 234

Luchs, two resin and one metal type

PSC Pz III

PSC Pak 40 with Adler Miniatures crew

I also think PSC is great for war game quality models. Fast assembly, nice detail and good price.

Having said that, if I want more detail I will build kits from Revell, Hasegawa, etc.

I think you will need to explore a little by picking off a kit from here and there and finding what you like. But, man, look at Adler's work…wow.

Leon – I have long admired your work…

Thank you ccmatty,
Then again I'm a modeller who games a bit.
nheather for top quality in both senses just put 'PiersBrand' into posting search…………..:)
L

Resin I like because they usual require the least building work ( just turret and tracks normally)

Plastic usually, I find, gives the best results but putting them together can be a chore (though PSC and Armourfast are good for minimal parts)

Metal can be a pain to fit together and glue and are generally my least favoured option.

I agree with Leon, a gamer's needs are some what different than that of a modeler. Not that the two can't crossover, both Leon and Piers are excellent examples. Game play can take a toll on figures and kits with use. My 20mm Germans have been touched up twice over the years but they do see a lot of game play. I also do several shows and run demo games.

You get what you pay for, quality costs. You can also contact the manufacture they may replace for major defects.

Duane

If you're just after one or two AFVs for skirmish games, consider Easy Model 1:72 ready-to-roll tanks: fully assembled and painted at prices from £11.00 GBP upwards

Resin can be soft on detail and have bubbles if not cast under pressure. I tend to use plastic kits as far as is possible and with 1/72 the variety of kits is massive. With the fast build options available, quality and speed of build is attainable.

I tend to go for plastic first, then metal and finally resin if no other option.

A plastic kit is always my first choice of medium, be it a 'proper' construction model (I enjoy making them) or a rapid build type like PSC. I only go resin/metal if the vehicle or gun I want doesn't exist in kit form.

I'm a little puzzled by your desire for weight in your models, and being unhapy with the light weight of resin. Apart from a few totally white metal models, my resin ones are the heaviest I own. I prefer to carry around as little weight as possible and that's another reason to go plastic.

A couple of years ago I ordered some resin kits from Britannia/Grubby. They were not their usual crisp well cast models but had lots of bubbles and resin splash. The 234 had lots of resin splash in the wheel wells and turret hole. When I contacted them it was explained that they had a new person casting and he was still learning but had worked it out. Later models ordered were just fine. I would go back to they manufacturer and explain the situation. Grubby is a good guy to deal with.

I have since bought a number of PSC kits and found them great.

Piers and Leon are the premier 20mm WW2 modellers on TMP. Anything I do pales in comparison.

Welcome Nigel,
+1 for Vigilant's 'visit a few shows and look'. I like PSC for the reasons already mentioned, but also have a look at the recent EWM resin/metal vehicles which I think are of amazing quality.
Cheers
R.

+2 Vigilant. Everyone has their own subjective view of what constitutes 'quality'. You have to find your own 'sweet spot' – a combination of materials you prefer working with coupled with price.

As mentioned above EWM produces excellent kits (imo) for a very fair price.

IMHO, I'm prepared to do a bit of work on models when they arrive. I don't expect them to be so perfect I can just paint them straight away. The new stuff from EWM comes close.

As to the "heft" of models, that's a personal thing. I prefer NOT to use metal models if there's a plastic or resin one available. But that's just me.

More of an issue to me is inconsistency in scale. It's annoying seeing the difference between the smaller end of 1/76 and the bigger end of 1/72.

Armourfast, PSC for plastics plus, as been mentioned, prepaints.

EWM or Milicast in resin depending on the complexity required: no blemishes there.

Metal? Heft?…

Why? The fragility of metal kits (try dropping one then drop an all resin EWM all resin one*) is something I avoid when I can.

John T

* hint: one will crush under its own weight and disintegrate; one will bounce. Can you guess which one will do which?

Totally agree with Tarleton's comment. I won't name the supplier, but about a year ago I bought 3 metal M10 Wolverines. Couldn't build them! I'm not a novice at modelling but I couldn't figure out where half the stuff went! Add to that the fact that some pieces were missing and others were so badly cast that there were holes and gaps everywhere! Luckily, a mate of mine had just built some of the same kits (it took him ages) so he built them for me. Otherwise they'd have still been sitting here, unbuilt.

PSC kits are well made and have a few bits of extra stowage (tank tracks, fuel cans, etc) that you can glue on. Armourfast not as well detailed, but very easy to "pimp".

And Leon Adler & Piers – thanks, as always, for the lovely pics!

Metal is my first choice for sure, love working with this material. However I would say I'm both a modeler and gamer, so I invest more time in my models than would say pure gamers. MMS is the gold standard for metal vehicles IMO, like AB is for figures. Very little flash if any, beautifully cast, parts (usually quite a few) fit together perfectly, with lots of detail. Invest in a hand pin drill and get pictures on the web because yes, LOL, instructions are basic. Pick up a MMS Tiger tank and the weight is awesome! Have Dave's Baggage Train carriers with wheels to alleviate the weight transport issue. Always get compliments from players when we host. The MMS line is extensive, check it out.

SHQ also makes metal models, but with fewer parts and be prepared to fill some spots with green stuff. Skytrex Hinchliffe is now gone, taken over by EWM and now offer resin/metal combo.

With resin, small parts are brittle and can break, and breathing in resin dust is dangerous. Don't particularly like wearing a mask when modeling. That said, I do have a few and they came out nicely, although I did add lead weight underneath.

Maybe in the future I'll try plastic again, bringing me back to my childhood modeling projects. Blaming Piers for this, just gaze at his stuff.

Lastly, be aware of the scale difference, metal being 1/76 and plastic/resin 1/72. Mix and match fine, but if they are the "same" vehicle you will notice a bit of a size difference. Just experiment and see what you like, and the best of luck!