"Rookie looking for advice" Topic

Hi guys, After many years wargaming in other periods mostly 20th XX century and the far future I decided to test the waters on the Napoleonic era. Yea, I know some of you might feel sorry for me LOL. I know it can become an ambitious and daunting enterprise. But with your fine advice and guiding I shall prevail!

All advice is welcomed. Rules? size of minis? single based? multi? Big Battles? Skirmish? What are the most popular? what are the best rated? Thanks cheers1

Here would be my advice:

The real beauty of Napoleonics is in bigger battles. At the skirmish level they aren't that different. So I would suggest Le Feu Sacre for rules. It uses small units. So you can paint relatively few figures and get a battle in.

You could also use Black Powder with small units and expand over time if you really love the period. Start with battalions of 12 then expand later to battalions of 24.

15mm is a great scale for pageantry (you can see the uniforms) balanced against cost and ease of painting.

Pick a small battle and build the forces for that.

For basing, put two 15mm figs on a 20x15 steel base. With sheet magnet movement trays you'll be able to play anything out there.

You have a lot of work (hopefully enjoyable!) to do to narrow down each of these points

1) Scope of the game: Will the units be battalions, regiments, or Brigades.. or much smaller (skirmish). I call my units regiments myself, as that the level of uniform variations. They can represent different things for different games, though. I personally have little interest in skirmish level games for this era, but to each their own!

2)Size of figures: This will be determined in part by constraints on space and budget, as well as aesthetics. Do you like the grand sweep of the battlefield, with the uniform details being less of interest? Then perhaps 6mm or 10mm may be best for you (I don't have either, but think 10mm looks worlds better). If you really enjoy the glorious uniforms of the era, then at perhaps least 15mm figures are best (I use 25's/28's myself). The plastic 1/72 stuff out there (with some notable metals as well) is pretty amazing, and economical. See the astounding job my freind Mateus in Brazil dies with these figures! Of course, if you have potential opponents in your area with existing armies, that m,ay be a big factor in the decision… or not! Ina almost all of these scales, we are fairly spoiled for choice!

Basing – stands of 2 or more for all but skirmish rules. This will be dependent to some degree on the size of the figures you use, and the rules you chose, although most modern rules are relatively basing independent, it will still matter to some degree, not to mention your own aesthetic input.

Rules – again the choices are almost bewildering, and are very much subject to personal preferences and scale of the game. Tried and true sets include Shako 2nd edition, Age of Eagles, Napoleon's Battles (current is 4th edition), General de Brigade, Le Feu Sacre, Field of Battle (my personal favorite), Blucher, Volley and Bayonet, Black Powder, Snappy Nappy, and many more.

I'd agree with Extra Crispy – once you have an idea of the above, start with a small battle and build the forces for BOTH SIDES for that. French and Austrians or French and British would be the most versatile, but nothing wrong with Prussians or Russians as the opponents for the French, either. You can always add more (and more…) later. Good luck, and, most opf all – have fun!

As always when starting a new wargaming period, it helps to know what is popular in your particular area. Unless you are going to go down the solo gaming route exclusively, you will need opponents. Rules for Napoleonic games are a real nightmare; my club has used about 6 in the last two years and we still don't have a consensus. The situation is made even more convoluted by the fact that the 6 or 8 players with Napoleonic armies have them in 6mm, 10/12 mm, 15/18 mm, 1/72 and 28 mm! Fortunately most of us are able to offer two different armies, so we can always arrange a game. My advice would be to go for either 10 mm (cheapish, easy to paint quickly, look good en masse) or the 18 mm figures from the likes of AB, Blue Moon, CGM or even Old Glory. They cost a bit more, take longer to paint but they are big enough to show regimental detail. As for rules, I agree with Extra Crispy- big battles are the essence of Napoleonics. There are good skirmish rulesets ( Sharpe Practice for example) but a division at least is needed to get the feel of Napoleonics, with all three arms working together. I like Black Powder, quite generic, but with some national idiosyncracies to add interest, and also the new Over the Hills set. If you want to play at Corps level, then choose one of the smaller scales, such as 6mm or 10mm and try Age of Eagles; it's a variant of Fire and Fury, the popular ACW set and is well supported online with a Yahoo group and website.

The Mouse, as always, has good advice. If you are on your own, things are a little harder, but try to build a playable force for 2-3 opponents . If there is a local group, try to see if they are offering what you want.

I like BIG Battles. I use Age of Eagles. A good force is a "generic" Corps with some light and Heavy Cavalry for Options. I ended up with a whole lot more than that. Look at the Campaigns of 1809 or 1813, lots of parity during these campaigns.

There is no quick and easy way to get into Napoleonics. As noted on another thread a couple days ago, the Perry's are coming out with Travel Battle as a simple Napoleonic game in 8mm. If you want to dive in, this might be a way. Otherwise, I agree with the opinions above. There is so much to choose from, you need to know what you enjoy in a game. As an example, I really wanted to make a grand cavalry charge. I finally found a game that enabled me to do so in a version of the ACW rules Fire & Fury. I believe they became Age of Eagles when introduced formally, but please check around. I began with Napoleon's Battles and tried a few others. Then I quit and am now awaiting Travel Battle as a way to dabble in Napoleonics without burying myself in painting armies and learning detailed rules. Good Luck! It is a great period of military history; my favorite.

20mm plastics and Lasalle rules to start.

Hello, thanks for the awesome and detailed responses.There are not many historic wargamers in my area. So what I do is I always purchase all the stuff and then I teach my "boardgame" friends how to play. So I think that I will need some rules that are not too complicated to begin this project.

I have and used for many years Old Glory's 15mm for my WW II skirmish games in single US penny base. For Napoleonic's I ll have to put rows of 10 I guess.

So I think I will have to decide if I go 10mm or 15mm. I enjoy painting so 15mm have the upper hand here. what do you guys think? Thanks

10mm Pendraken make fantastic Napoleonics. You can more easily, I think, get the look of the column, lines and squares with 10mm. To me 15mm is a compromise without any real benefit, unless of course you are talking about ABs which are really 18mm. If you love the period and can afford it, that is the way to go. Most beautiful figures in any scale.

A good way to answer your question is to check with your playing partners.

What do they do?

Will you be playing solo?

Do you have a FLGS?

Will you play only at conventions?

Answering these questions may well give you a direction to travel in. There are many good ways to enjoy Napoleonics.

Most of my friends are casual players and dont have a single soldier in their house. Actually I am the only one registered in this website from my whole county in south Texas.

I have no problem playing solo games. In the FLGS they only play Warhammer 40K or Warmachine occasionally, I also play those. I never attended a convention other that Boardgamegeek Con.

A couple of my friends like to play Bolt Action with me using the 15mm minis I mentioned before. I think I ll have to promote the hobby more. Maybe I will open the first wargame club in my area. who knows

if you already have 15mm terrain, then that might be a good argument for sticking with that scale for Napoleonics.

If you have 15mm terrain and have enjoyed painting them in the past, those are indeed points in favor of that size… or the Blue Moon 18's – an excellent deal with the Army Card, or the superb AB figures (also 18mm) as others have mentioned. I was the first in my area decades ago, and built a regular group of 4 – 6 players within a few years.

As far as solo play, most any rules can be played solo, but Field of Battle would work especially well for that, and isn't too hard to learn:

link

Texas is a big state, but there are quite a few Historical gamers there, and several conventions. It is probably worth attending one or two if you can. That can also be a good way to try out the look of different scales, and the feel of several rules sets.

Peter

Another thing to try. If you narrow down to 1-2 rules, then see if they are supported in a Yahoo group. Most gamers are quick to help out a newbie with advice and general help. If you join then you can also go through old posts as well.

The obvious: Build two sides and all arms. Don't be diverted until you have two working armies. Make sure your bases are easy to handle. (Don't laugh: I've seen wargamers with tweezers.)

The less obvious: try for two rules rather than one. The classic big battles--Leipzig, Borodino, Wagram--need a system in which you maneuver brigades. But there are many smaller battles, and a lot of fun in battles in which you maneuver battalions. (Skirmish level is another matter.) Purely as an example, Napoleon's Battles is geared to the largest battles, but the same basing can be used with Shako or Black Powder which represent the more intimate fights. No need to lock yourself in.

A couple of thoughts on rules. Try "One Hour Wargames" by Neil Thomas. They are available on Amazon. These rules cover a number of periods from ancient to WWII, and plenty of reviews on the net. These use small armies of 6 units each. So, it would be an easy to build two opposing armies to start with. The rules are rather simplistic, but the great this about them is they come with 30 scenario's that can be scaled to used with any set of rules. These scenario's alone are worth the price of the book.

Neil Thomas also has a set of rules called "Wargaming: An Introduction", which like OHW also cover a number of periods. The Napoleonic rules are more fleshed out, and use 11 to 13 units per Army. They are very easy to learn and easy to play, and give an enjoyable game. Again, 13 units for two sides is easily collectable.

With 13 units for each force, Field of Battle mentioned by Gonsalvo is playable, and gives a great game. The 30 Scenario's in OHW work great with the rules, and make for more interesting battles and varied victory conditions than just head on battles.

A lot of great blogs by the members of this forum are on line that show the different scales and models used by the members. Take a look at "1809 in 3mm" 1809in3mm.blogspot.com for how to build really huge good looking armies on the cheep.

Good luck and enjoy the journey.

Sounds like you may have to engage in some negotiations to get anything going on with Napoleonics in your area--as in, "I'll try playing your game (that doesn't really interest me), if you'll try playing mine (that probably doesn't really interest him). That is sort of the way I got into Napoleonic miniatures gaming. I was originally a board gamer with a primary interest in naval gaming, but a friend talked me into trying Napoleonics, and it didn't take long to get hooked on the sheer scale and pageantry.

Hmm. I may be burned for heresy, but as daler240 points out, a few boxes of 1/72 plastics gives you a very cheap entry point, and individually mounted--you'll need trays for some systems--they can accommodate most rules. Perhaps 7 boxes a side with scratchbuilt terrain, try some different rules, and then decide scale and basing for the longer term. Too many of us get committed too early and wind up writing off expensive armies.

Just be careful about painting soft plastics if you go that way. They take a little more care.

OK guys, again, thanks for all your great advice. So many options, so many things to consider.

I am reading about all the options you give me, I will make a decision soon. I am flying to Europe in 1 week so it might be a good moment to get some nice European made minis and save on postage to USA, any recommendations?

I will go for 15mm since I already have a bunch of farms and country houses that I made and used for Rapid Fire, Disposable Heroes & CF7B then ended up using lately for my WW II Bolt Action Normandy scenarios.

And to continue with the Warlords family I am considering using Black Powder and maybe use centimeters or half the inches distance for my 15mm. The book has been recommended, has strong online support and forums, it is in the mid range of difficulty*I hope and is amazingly illustrated.

So I feel I am heading in that direction, what do you guys think?

15mm and BP is a very reasonable choice for you. I'd give very careful consideration to how you organize your armies for both aesthetics and to be compatible with as many other likely options as possible. Fortunately. BP is very non-prescriptive in that regard.

The one weakness of BP for a new player is the lack of guidance on how to represent the different troop types. The supplements are gradually covering that, but that's more cost, albeit admittedly with additional pictorial inspiration!

If your friends are mostly board gamers, how about trying Commands & Colors Napoleonics. This will get them interested. And then you can replace the blocks with bases of 6mm figures.

Hi, Yes, now the decision is all about what brand of 15mm minis, how many per base, artillery, command etc. I red somewhere that it could rather be 2 lines of 8,10,12 soldiers per base or 2 lines of 20, I dont know. As Gonzalvo said, the idea is that the bases are suitable for Black Powder but also versatile enough to fit in other rules systems.

We already played C&C Ancients and we play Memoir 44 with hexes just like those in the photo. What a grat idea Keithbarker, It will be a great to use the 15mm Napoleonic minis for C&C Naps.

If it's versatility you want, then infantry based 4 figures in two rows on a 20x30mm base works for a lot of rules. For cavalry, I find I need to expand frontage to 25mm and get two figures side by side. Works for Black Powder, Over the Hills, Age of Eagkes, FoGNapoleonic, General de Brigade etc.

What manufacturer of 15mm Napoleonics do you guys recommend?

abfigures.com

AB Figures they look amazing, actually those are 18mm and they are like 1 euro each, that is a little pricey for my wallet.