"SoG, FS or KMH?" Topic

Ahoy…
If you wanted to introduce a newcomer to some fairly easy rules for Napoleonic sea combat, but which still had a good degree of "realism" and "fog of war", which set of rules would you choose?
Sails of Glory; Fighting Sail(Osprey) or Kiss Me Hardy ? or what?

I would go with Kiss Me, Hardy. The card movement gives fog of war, and the basic rules give all ships of the same type the same gun boxes and hull boxes. That way, they are not overwhelmed with the minutiae of how two 74s can have different ratings for things. There are articles in the TFL Specials on how to adjust ship ratings for different nationalities, if they decide that more detail is necessary.
BWW

First it depends on whether you are looking for rules for ship to ship, squadron, or large full fleet battles.

SoG is good where one player controls 1-2 ships. So you can have small battles with enough players. Good game for newcomers as well. Lots of info at the rules forum: sailsofglory.org

For fleet actions where a player controls a squadron of ships I'd recommend "Fire As She Bears II".

Never tried KMH but I like TFL rules so I'll have to give that a go.

I love Kiss me Hardy. I will always recommend it.

Have you looked at "fire as she bares?"

I think you mean, "Fire as She Bears". The other is a very different game.

Insert obligatory "able seamen" joke here.

I would pass on Osprey Fighting Sail. I have it and didn't find it representative of Age of Sail combat at all. Can't comment on the others.

Form Line of Battle by David Manley is simple and versatile and inexpensive as a PDF from Wargame Vault.

There are others I like, but Form Line of Battle stood the test of time and is widely used.

For a simple and easy game, you can't really do much better than Form Line of Battle by David Manley. Has a good mix of simplicity and detail that makes for a good game. As for the others, not so much. Like dantheman, I found Fighting Sail to be a very poor representation of the Age of Sail. And I found Sails of Glory to be grossly overdone (and the sailing system particularly bad).

" Osprey Fighting Sail. I have it and didn't find it representative of Age of Sail combat at all. " That's interesting….. can you say why it missed the period "feel" ?

parrskool: "period feel" is not the same thing as being representative of the period, and is much less quantifiable as well. A game can be quite cinematic and full of "period feel" but still get the facts wrong.

There's a fairly thorough discussion of both sides of the question regarding Osprey's Fighting Sail here:

TMP link

In the game gunnery results were too random and potentially lethal with the right roll, which happened too frequently. Gunnery in this period was much more attritional. Enemies battered each other to submission.

It is a shame really. Mechanics were simple and clean. Great potential. But the results were way off from reality to me.

Kinda bizarre, but I am rather fond of GW's Trafalgar rules for duels to small squadrons going at it.

Rather unfortunate that you can't play the namesake battle with those rules, though. There's a bit too much detail for a single player to keep track of more than probably 4 ships.

American 44s are rightfully terrifying. Fast and with no light guns at all, just heavy guns and carronades. They can pound the crap out of a 64 pretty reliably, but it will be a slog to sink her.

Of course, being a GW Historical game, good luck finding a copy. EvilBay can probably hook you up, though. Amazon is no help.

So, as I understand it, the problem lies in the gunnery area ???

Pete and I have tried to sort out the gunnery and into the wind bits in "Fighting Sail" I cannot do big things on this site. If you are interested go to "Fighting Sail" Facebook" page for free download of our house rules.
Be safe
Rory