"Bringing Back Old Figures? Why Not?" Topic

I know some figures ranges have disappeared over the years, as stuff happens (for some of the really old, poor sculpts, perhaps that is a blessing), e.g. molds supposedly destroyed in fires, or lost to the winds of time while being shipped, etc., etc..

What surprises me though, is many of the manufacturers of them, and/or the people that hold the licenses for some ranges, rarely seem to ever try to recover them, and/or appeal to the public for assistance in putting them back into production.

Heck, it would seem to me selling off the rights for whatever you can get for the ranges seems like a better idea than simply letting them die on the vine.

The few exceptions that seem to buck that trend, that I can think of off the top of my head are:

- Ainsty's purchase of Dixon's 28mm Pirate ships range, and the re-making of the molds to cast them from, which apparently were in awful shape before that occured;
- Spacelords figures being rolled out again;
- and the 1/300th scale Goblintooth aircraft, and their 1/72nd scale frogmen.

Some old rules are starting to be re-released too, which is nice, for us dinosaurs.

I'd really love to see the old Metal Magic, Traveller figs released again (guys in heavy armored suits, produced in Germany, IIRC), as well as the K'Kree and Zhodani figs for Traveller.

I'd also love to see the 1/600th Coastal Forces range available from SDD, and some of their 15mm and 28mm pirate ships too.

I suspect there are many others as well, that I've forgotten about, and/or are unaware of.

It seems to me that some members of the public, who own miniatures from these ranges might be willing to loan, and/or sell them to the manufacturers/owners to re-make molds from which they can be put into production again, perhaps for some nominal consideration in exchange, e.g. return of their figs, and perhaps a few more to boot.

Anyway, just a thought.

Feel free to add other ranges that you'd like to see reintroduced as well, below. Perhaps someone will read this posting, and actually do something about it.

Throw in the Battlesystem range in 15mm by Ral Partha, where supposedly TSR insisted the molds be destroyed when the license ended to produce the figures.

My assumption is that most of these defunct ranges were produced on a shoestring, and when they went out of production little effort was made to preserve them, therefore anyone wanting to do so would have a devil of a time with finding all the molds, many would be damaged, etc.

Frontier "true 25mm" ranges. Particularly the Colonials.

As someone who likes even "poor quality" sculpts, I'll second this. The old ranges often had a charm and whimsical appeal missing in today's realistic figures.

Not sure I'd collect them at this stage, but for many years I wished the Mike's Models Colonial range was available once again!

I would love to see all the Minifigs 2nd gen 15mm figures come back into production. However, the range is huge and is not really compatible with the current ranges of big 15/18mm figures so I doubt it would be economically viable even if the molds or masters could be found.

Similarly, I really liked Garrison's old 25mm ranges and it was great to see them brought back into production for a while. However, the truth is, when they were available I didn't purchase that many of them (just a few ECW and SYW figures). So whilst there are ranges I would like to see brought back for reasons of nostalgia it doesn't actually mean I am going to start buying them.

The Eureka Teddies. Mike's Models. Van Tubrigan's Command Post 30's. Several of the old Heritage lines. Squats. Scrunts. Paroom Station. Conniseur 30's. It's a long list.

A lot of this is someone wanting more for a line than it's worth, of course. But sometimes companies or individuals decide particular lines just aren't worth the time or catalog space.

Suggestion. Establish a company--"Leftovers Inc." You give up on a line, ship the molds to them, and they'll charge twice as much per figure to the hard core gamers.

I'd really love to see the old Metal Magic,

I thought metal magic were already brought back?

Midlam doing the fantasy stuff, and Moonraker (part of Em4 I think?) selling the scifi, though it doesn't look like they have a complete range (yet).

And I'm sure I've heard of someone producing (or claiming an intent to produce) the Eureka teddies, and some heritage stuff, though I can't recall where I heard that.

A lot of old stuff is still available, just not neccesarily under the old name.

It astonishes me how many people think Grenadier, Harlequin, and Ral Partha are no longer in production..

I think the problem is that people who acquire the moulds sometimes don't realise what is involved in getting them produced and back on the market. They have the money to acquire the moulds but not enough to get them cast up.

Also real life sometimes intervenes and people lose the time or money that was going to enable them to produce the figures again.

Sometimes people acquire ranges because they don't want them to disappear and want to Complete their own collections, they have no interest in marketing and selling them.

The entire 400+ sets of All The Queen's Men Toy Soldiers is a case in point that I wouldn't have been able to bring back to the market without a chance encounter with the collector who had bought the moulds and masters.

Sometimes ranges are destroyed – Steve Saleh had all his Tenth Legion moulds destroyed when he started working for GW.

Mike

+1 Black Hat

There's a reason they aren't available: they don't sell enough to make it worthwhile. So you're hoping someone will do it as a money loser or, at best, a very long-term break even. Selling the molds sounds good but you need a buyer, and one who expects to break even or make money.

Iron Wind tested something like this a while back. They announced they were retiring large numbers of models that had not sold any in the past few years. There was a huge outcry about the lovely old models, people filling out collections, etc. etc. And in the end no one bought any so they retired them anyway.

These are the Traveller, Metal Magic ones I'd like to see produced – Code R1104, and listed as Military in Battle Suits on one image:

Black Hat – ref 10th Legion, I thought Steve had passed the range on after he stopped selling them direct. Maybe Gladiator ?? can't remember.

I have a lovely 10th Legion roman army :) Probably still have the catalogue somewhere!

I'm quite happily collecting old Minifigs 'S' Range and early PB Ancients. Frankly, they are dirt cheap because no-one else is really interested in them. When I bought Garrison some of the ranges sold OK and I got my money back (plus I own all the moulds so can do any I want for me)but I'm glad I didn't depend on them for a living.

Second the EC comment – people would scream for a range to be brought back then disappear when I brought them back!

Strangely, the original 20mm Garrison figures did really well, second only to the 25mm S&S Range.

I would think a Kickstarter might work for this. You would basically presell the figures before they were produced. If not enough people were interesed the project gets scraped. I'm sure it's a bit more complicated but may be worth a try.

Second the EC comment – people would scream for a range to be brought back then disappear when I brought them back!

I'm sorry to say I was one of those people. You actually brought the ECW range back into production for me and though I bought a few I'm sure I didn't buy enough to justify the effort you went to. However, I did enthuse about them here on TMP: TMP link

I loved the old Garrison S&S range as well. I used to have dreams of creating huge Hyborian armies out of them but that is another of those things that never got past the planning stage.

RAFM era large 1/87th scale Heavy Gear range.

With the caveat that one could re-issue them in a simpler form e.g. basic model of each type: Jager, Iguana, Mamba and Cobra, and have upgrade packs for the variants–as this would save having to produce so many models.

Oh, and in resins and pewter to reduce costs.

I discovered "Imperialist Miniatures" way too late a few years back when I was big into the GNW and WSS periods. Their range was very extensive and had some unique equipment/artillery pieces which no one else produced. I had talked with the owner, a very old gentleman, which he only took mail orders. I was probably one of his last customers. It would appear he may have not been able to physically keep the line running.

I think part of the lost of figure ranges may stem from lack of interests for the period by the gaming community. Hard to say…

P.

Interesting subject! I really enjoy the "quest" for "Old-School" miniature lines which I have been doing for years. I think Rob Young hit it on the head when he stated that very few people purchased them although many reported they would do so. I think for some of us, it is being at the right place at the wrong time. When Rob first offered his Garrison 25mm ECW, (1) I had no idea of doing the ECW in 25mm, and, (2) didn't know what Garrison 25mm ECW looked like. Of course, by the time I started collecting 25mm Minifig ECW, they were no longer available. When I was collecting 25mm Garrison SYW many years ago, I couldn't find them! John Cunningham in the U.K. has purchased many 20mm extinct lines and made them available to us. Check him out as to what he has.
Frontier Miniatures has a curse attached to it, I think. It has been sold and resold with plans each time to make them available again. Has not happened as of yet although I did pick up many of them from their left-over stock. I always loved the Frontier line. Heritage 15mm is another great line from the past. I had 5,000 painted 15mm ACW Heritage in my very first collection before I started another. Should have stopped after 1,000 or so and started Napoleonics! That line deserves to be available again. Beautiful figures!
The old Custom Cast 25mm AWI, ACW, Soldiers of the Queen line is another one that was very nice. They, however, are still available, I understand.
Another one of my favorites is the Minifig 'S' range. They are one of the many lines John Cunningham has made available to us.
I know for me, a large part of the appeal of the old figures is that it takes me back to when I first started in the hobby. Wonderful times.
I know for me, a lot of the appeal of the old lines

I think part of the lost of figure ranges may stem from lack of interests for the period by the gaming community. Hard to say…

Possibly; there might not be enough gamers playing period X to support Y number of figure companies.

But I suspect the main problem is a lack of advertising, which is a problem across wargaming as a whole.
I only got into gaming as a result of a friend telling me about it. He only told me, because a friend told him. Until then nobody in our families or social circle even knew such a thing exited.

Even now I really have to search for suppliers of ranges of figures, and thats despite the massive improvement in things like the internet, and sheer experience in knowing what I'm looking for and where I might find it.

No wonder ranges can't stay in business – if the range is difficult to find, andthe community itself is difficult to find in the first place, its a minor miracle anyone wargames at all! And how folk coped before the internet I'll never know.

I can't help but wonder how many potential wargamers are out there, that have never heard of a bricole, and don't know that they have forever missed the chance to buy Squats..

Now I'm not assigning blame here- I know that a lot of these companies are 1-man band operations and have neither the time nor the money to go door to door with their wares, or hire a squadron of B52's to carpet bomb the cities of the world with pamphlets for toy soldiers, but I think that must be part of it.

I loved my Scruby Mexican War 20mms. There's an elegance to such old figures lined up on their bases.

Wow ! George Van Tubergen's 30mm Command Post Russians !

I'd be able to complete my Russian 30mm brigade then !

London calling

I bought Gladiator just after they had stopped producing 10th legion under license and were instructed to destroy the moulds by Steve

Mike

A lot of my nostalgia for old ranges is because nothing is done in that scale any more.
99% of my Colonial figures are in "true 25mm" scale.
All the Kool Kids today make Colonials in 28mm or larger.
So, I pine for Frontier.

I'll agree on Frontier. That said, The money may only be in bringing back secondary lines. I'm sure I would not be buying any British regulars, however, I believe they had a line a Afghan regulars that I would love to pick up.

Black Hat – Mike – oh dear real sorry to hear that. I had always hoped on going back and expanding my numbers !

Ah well guess I will have to focus on all the other half finished projects at home…….

But seriously – they are real nice figures, I remember Steve's small stand at a London show when he was kicking it off.

I bought a load of Garrison S&S figures while they were availiable and did a load of HOTT armies, so thanks to Rob for those.

Just wish I'd bought some Garrison Sci-Fi when they were on offer, but I was prioritising.

Bravo to all the people who keep 25mm figures going as that's all I do.

Classic Miniatures with their Heritage/Elan Merch/Der Kriegspieler lines were also a Godsend.

Thanks to Micheal there.

Now if only Minifigs / Cavalier would increase there fantasy and sci-fi ranges then things would be good.

Could do with some Earth Federation troopers with missile launchers and some Robomen

Keep the torch burning guys.

BTW Ral Partha's Chaos Wars range has got people happy with all that Tom Meier magic popping up again. Bravo.

Hi friends,

I hear you. I'm pretty nostalgic myself about some older lines of figures. It's a long shot, but I could use a few more 15mm Washington's Wars figures, plus I wouldn't mind acquiring some 15mm Peter Laing figures again. I foolishly sold my painted PL figures a long time ago. They weren't valuable to anyone but me.

Have any of you gents read Harry Pearson's "Achtung Schweinehund!"? He spends some space talking about the bittersweet sorrow of collecting OOP historical wargame figures.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind getting some 15mm Yucca ACW or WWII figures either. Sadly, the old owner told me years ago that they're long gone.

I am still lamenting the loss of Raja Brookes South Pacific Range.

Custom Cast Fantastique Dwarves – didn't care as much for the goblins, but the dwarves were great.

Apparently (according to tinsmith(?) who has the Heritage fantasy lines) Heritage bought the Custom Cast Der Kriegspielers lines and destroyed (actually threw in the dumpster) the fantasy lines that competed with their own.

On that topic, I have would would look at buying more Heritage ancients and medievals.

Then there are the Archeron Legion figures from McEwan Miniatures. He is still in business, but has apparently dropped the line. Pity – some of the best 20mm undead ever made.

Hopefully the Quartermaster recovers and the Falcon Figures minis are not lost.

I've always fancied getting hold if some Minifigs strip figures for thee 7 years war, but their moulds were destroyed too I believe.

Citadel/Marauder Miniatures Orcs n goblins.

Whitecross early Byzantine armored spearmen

I have cut a deal for the moulds and rights to the long out of production IT 20mm WW2 ranges, which turs out to be larger than I remember. Not only will this bring both the WW1 and WW2 back together but they will also go well with my vehicle ranges.While this will take a little time to get up and running, progress will be posted on Frontline's website and Facebook page and anumber of forums

I am planning to use Jacklex figures in my otherwise plastic Zulu War project.
Half of this is nostalgia, the rest is because they are very nice models. OK they are basic next to more modern offerings, but they look great when painted up and – as I creak on – any detail on figures is lost on the table, even if I had the skill/patience/eyesight to deal with it.
My first Napoleonic games were at college with my English teacher's Heritage 15mm, lovely figures that would stand up with any of today's. And I often flick through Grant's Napoleonic Wargaming just to marvel at the Hinton Hunt figures.
I think the bottom line is age. Moulds deteriorate, masters are lost or damaged and its probably cheaper to start afresh than reproduce or resurrect, especially if you can't get a sculptor who can copy the style.

> I would think a Kickstarter might work for this.

Yep. Impact Miniatures is currently running a KS for some Kev Adams and Tim Prow fantasy miniatures whose original owner died before they could be released. Licensing can be tricky, since you may have to track down more than one licensor for a particular model.

I cut my teeth (so to speak) on Garrison 25mm figures in the 1970's and still have most of them. When they were briefly brought back I bought some to bring some of my units up to strength, but couldn't do that for all since some of the figures weren't re-issued. I really liked these but I must admit I probably spent more $$$$ in Minifigs than on Garrison. Not that I liked them better, but they had larger ranges.

As I said, tracking down licensing may be part of reason why these models haven't been brought back yet. Here're a few posts by Impact Miniatures about licensing: link

Oh, the joy to be felt if Mike's Models and Frontier were available again. Although Essex will cast for order figures from the Mike's Models Renaissance line, I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the other molds for Mike's Models were destroyed. >sigh<

Aude, the most complete Italy 1848 range ever.. If I got the money I'd track him down and buy the range…

The Ral Partha Imports Romans…loved those! I saw them painted up in the hobby store that I used to go to as a college student. I had no money for 25mm figs at the time, but they were some of my favorites to dream of having.